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Maintenance & Repair => Mechanical => Topic started by: 1-600-matt on January 24, 2014, 10:08:19 PM

Title: B1 idle speed
Post by: 1-600-matt on January 24, 2014, 10:08:19 PM
So this is my trackbike and I want to turn the idle speed up a bit to try and stop it skipping the back wheel about when downshifting. Do I need to adjust the throttle position sensor?
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Millhouse on January 24, 2014, 10:41:45 PM
I found feathering the clutch helped more.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Maddog on January 25, 2014, 01:40:33 AM
Will blipping the throttle help so you kind of match the engine revs?
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Alzo on January 25, 2014, 06:45:01 AM
Leave the throttle position sensor well alone. The idle is adjustable at the engine end of the throttle cable if needed. But it's not a tactic I would employ.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: ash on January 25, 2014, 08:28:19 AM
There is an idle adjuster knob above the front sprocket on my b1 iirc
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: 1-600-matt on January 26, 2014, 03:27:10 PM
Yeah there is an idle adjuster so changing it is easy. On my k5 fact if I turned the idle up once it went into gear the revs would drop and the throttle position sensor needed to be zero'd. There was a display in dealer mode so you could find the set point. It would knock the powercommander out if the throttle position sensor wasn't correctly zero'd. I will maybe leave it alone and try to learn how to blip the throttle and feather the clutch a bit more. Cheers anyhow all.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Alzo on January 26, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
If you are barreling into corners at breakneck speed feathering a clutch is the last thing you want to be doing imho...blipping the throttle to match the speed and chosen gear is the way to go.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Maddog on January 26, 2014, 05:40:31 PM
Does the B1 have a slipper clutch? Maybe leave knocking it down the gears a bit later. I had one and didnt have an issue with it, but i blipped on downshifts
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Gobert on January 26, 2014, 05:56:26 PM
Raising the idle speed to around 2 / 2.5k rpm is a common adjustment for track riding.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Millhouse on January 26, 2014, 06:00:04 PM
Quote from: Alzo on January 26, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
If you are barreling into corners at breakneck speed feathering a clutch is the last thing you want to be doing imho...blipping the throttle to match the speed and chosen gear is the way to go.

What do you think slipper clutches are doing then?
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: MOzZereLLa on January 26, 2014, 06:00:27 PM
Quote from: Maddog on January 26, 2014, 05:40:31 PM
Does the B1 have a slipper clutch? Maybe leave knocking it down the gears a bit later. I had one and didnt have an issue with it, but i blipped on downshifts

No it doesn't.  The ZX6RR did but they are rare as.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Gobert on January 26, 2014, 06:09:55 PM
I'm not 100% sure but Sigma might have started selling slipper clutches for B1/2's?
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Millhouse on January 26, 2014, 06:45:55 PM
Yes, but they're £700 plus vat
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Alzo on January 26, 2014, 07:25:15 PM
Quote from: Millhouse on January 26, 2014, 06:00:04 PM
Quote from: Alzo on January 26, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
If you are barreling into corners at breakneck speed feathering a clutch is the last thing you want to be doing imho...blipping the throttle to match the speed and chosen gear is the way to go.

What do you think slipper clutches are doing then?
Slipping without any thought or input from the rider thus freeing you concentrate on braking and cornering...to add feathering a clutch in to that mix is asking for trouble in my opinion...and it is only my opinion...I know I would never have done it on road or track...throttle blipping worked for me...I wasn't Rossi on track...but I wasn't a tail end Charlie either.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Millhouse on January 26, 2014, 08:10:16 PM
Only place I've tried it was  the back straight at snett, big braking, blipping and the rear was bouncing all over the place.

Add a little hint of clutch slip and all was peachy setting up for the corner.

Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: 1-600-matt on January 26, 2014, 10:27:03 PM
£840 for a slipper clutch!! The wife generally is ok with any bike related spend, but id have to keep that one quiet! Prob be better off getting a different bike! Think I will try altering what I'm doing first!
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Gobert on January 27, 2014, 08:51:01 AM
Sigma's are £696 inc vat but that's as little as you'll pay for decent slipper clutch - STM's and Suters are nearer a grand.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: mc101 on January 30, 2014, 08:19:07 PM
Quote from: Alzo on January 26, 2014, 05:38:14 PM
If you are barreling into corners at breakneck speed feathering a clutch is the last thing you want to be doing imho...blipping the throttle to match the speed and chosen gear is the way to go.

blipping does not resolve engine braking causing the rear to break traction. Millhouse is right, a moderately manually induced clutch slip is the way to go and very easy to master with a few laps practice.  It needs surprisingly little lever action on the clutch.

Try riding a 996 without slipping the clutch to retain stability at corner entry.

Quote from: Millhouse on January 26, 2014, 08:10:16 PM
Only place I've tried it was  the back straight at snett, big braking, blipping and the rear was bouncing all over the place.

Add a little hint of clutch slip and all was peachy setting up for the corner.


The right strategy.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Millhouse on January 30, 2014, 08:20:45 PM
Where's the "slaps forehead and feints from shock at getting something right" smiley??

;)
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Alzo on January 30, 2014, 08:55:40 PM
I did say "imho"...and I understand the what clutch slipping does...I have been riding bikes for over 35 years...I just don't have the capacity to concentrate on hard braking...corner entry...then add in a little clutch slipping at the same time...so to that end I tip my hat to both of you for your ability.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: mc101 on January 30, 2014, 09:57:19 PM
Quote from: Alzo on January 30, 2014, 08:55:40 PM
I did say "imho"...and I understand the what clutch slipping does...I have been riding bikes for over 35 years...I just don't have the capacity to concentrate on hard braking...corner entry...then add in a little clutch slipping at the same time...so to that end I tip my hat to both of you for your ability.

You'd be surprised how natural it becomes it's not that difficult honestly.  It's merely about changing a long standing habit (not doing it).

The key thing to riding quickly to to get the basics automated and repeatable.  Once I establish a braking, turn in, brake release, power application it's an automated and zero concentration task freeing me tup to concentrate on other bikes, small corrections etc.

If your concentrating hard on the basics something fundamental is afoot ...
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Alzo on January 30, 2014, 10:10:04 PM
Fair comment....I get what you mean in terms of freeing yourself up...perhaps not as daunting as it sounds...I guess a bit of trial and error required to determine how much slip to induce.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: mc101 on January 30, 2014, 10:14:46 PM
Quote from: Alzo on January 30, 2014, 10:10:04 PM
Fair comment....I get what you mean in terms of freeing yourself up...perhaps not as daunting as it sounds...I guess a bit of trial and error required to determine how much slip to induce.

Oddly enough usually a rest on the lever is enough, you don't need to pull it per sell.not sure I'd want to practice it on the road !
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: Alzo on January 31, 2014, 07:38:12 AM
No wouldn't try it on the road....I make progress when road riding...but not Track riding pace. Planning a Trackday this year...so will give it a try.
Title: Re: B1 idle speed
Post by: greenmeeny on January 31, 2014, 08:26:44 AM
C1h slipper clutch fits with input shaft.