Something I've noticed when I'm riding is that during corners I just can't seem to lean much, a bit like a mental block.
Has anyone had this and what did you do to over come it?
Manned up....
I'm a fan of the track day route. You WILL lean over more on a track day as there's no-one coming the other way, no cars parked around the corners etc - when you get on the road you will remember what you and the bike are capable of doing.
I've never been good on corners but because I've not been out much over the last 2 years I'm getting worse, so I know it's time to book a track day. Chicken strips on road - about 3 inches each side, on the track bike it's been 0.5cm!
Confidence comes from understanding what the bike's doing and more importantly, what it's going to do.
Whilst I'm sure Moz's comment is purely flippant (and he is a riding god), it's more than just getting a set of balls and riding on blind faith.
Track days are ace because you can block out overwhelming dangers and focus. You need to feel the bike and understand what grip feels like, it's difficult to explain but going out on roads you're very familiar with will help a lot.
Boils down to confidence and you can't beat getting miles under your belt for that.
Listen to Moz he rode for a British Supersport team.
Slow down to go fast, is what I was told. Not great at following the advice but it is true if you knock the speed off 10mph then you relax and it all goes easier and you build up speed as a result.
I also used to do no-brakes rides every now and again to improve my anticipation and corner speed. Did help that I was on a mille with massive engine braking.
Different riding styles come in to play...for the roads slow in fast out will generally mean you live longer...big speeds and massive lean angles equal blind faith...tracks...practice...confidence...the Manning up comment is typical bravado.
Could it be a tyres thing? i.e. your on super sticky tyres that just don't warm up enough?
My chicken strippage has grown inversely with the state of the roads around this way...they are totally shit with huge potholes, tar and chippings resurfacing bodged repairs to potholes which they don't bother to seal the edges. They inspire no confidence at all :(
Bloody Tories
I ride differently depending on the value of the bike im riding the cheaper the more aggressive and more speed
Quote from: captain sensible on June 12, 2014, 10:24:12 AM
Something I've noticed when I'm riding is that during corners I just can't seem to lean much, a bit like a mental block.
Has anyone had this and what did you do to over come it?
If it's only sometimes or in certain situations its probably your self preservation gene kicking in..... I wouldn't go any quicker if I were you!
Of my little group of mates who used to go out regularly and we have been away a lot I was easily slowest of the pack when I wasn't feeling comfortable. As soon as i can see what I am doing, the road is right etc etc I am among the quickest. It's either the bike or your mind telling you that's enough and it's probably worth listening.
The track was a different story though...... Neil, Dom and Stuno will vouch for me being slow and steady.... but spent the whole day completely excited about lean angles and tearing up the edges of tyres.... and generally gurning like a loon! Get on it!
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on June 12, 2014, 12:08:27 PM
I ride differently depending on the value of the bike im riding the cheaper the more aggressive and more speed
I see a lot of people like you at track days................normally getting a ride in the van of shame.............
Thanks for the response guys, the track days route is something that I want to explore but ive been tempted with the tuition aspects that are available, places like the californian superbike school and the ron haslam race school seem to be the two that people talk about the most so I've considered both but I've been put off by prices for what It would take to complete the levels.
Does anyone know of any other places to go and get advice from?
And as for Manning up/growing a set of balls, I've done my biological duties and therefore they are just there for aesthetic value.
having been blessed with almost no natural talent or ability on a bike.... but having done a track day... I'd say just jump on an easy to learn track an and have a bash Cpt! You'll have a blast and no doubt quickly get a feel for what you want to work on. IMO it's definitely worth testing the water.
Have a read of the "Twist of the Wrist" books
Not the easiet to digest but lots in there once you've got your head round Keith Code's writing style
Schools are good but a beginners group at a good trackday will do wonders, especially if you collar an instructor for some pointers
Would recommend a hire bike too so you don't need to worry about your own shiny bike and can concentrate solely on riding
Can seem expensive but as it includes set-up, tyres, fuel, etc... ;)
My comment was flippant, tongue in cheek and yes, not funny harsh banter.
I actually found two levels of confidence. The first from road to trackday, the second from trackday to racing where I guess the environment set the mental state to faster still. This may have something to do with the bike not being mine or my financial responsibility. All those that suggest trackdays and more importantly, advanced track instruction are spot on.
And it was a British SUPERBIKE team Dom.... Get it right.....
:azn:
Quote from: the invisible dog on June 12, 2014, 01:51:24 PM
Have a read of the "Twist of the Wrist" books
Not the easiet to digest but lots in there once you've got your head round Keith Code's writing style
Schools are good but a beginners group at a good trackday will do wonders, especially if you collar an instructor for some pointers
Would recommend a hire bike too so you don't need to worry about your own shiny bike and can concentrate solely on riding
Can seem expensive but as it includes set-up, tyres, fuel, etc... ;)
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa420/gilby104/giphy.gif) (http://s1196.photobucket.com/user/gilby104/media/giphy.gif.html)
My mistake, knew it was British some such.
Quote from: Lord Danoir the first on June 12, 2014, 12:03:56 PM
Bloody Tories
We have had 6 bikers die on the roads of Gloucestershire in the last month. The state of them certainly doesn't help.
And the state isn't helping either.
The roads and here are not great and the places where you can enjoy a ride is becoming fewer.
So am I right in thinking then that the cost of a track day just includes entrance to the circuit, or does it vary from company to company?
Free instruction with No Limits.
Some of the new tyres are really high profile...Super corsa SPs take some lean angle to achieve respectable Chicken Strips...they are really a track tyre...just another angle.
I used to be completely unable to do right handed corners some sort of mental block (this is only recent) and I just refused to lean into it can do lefts no problem can scrape my elbow quite happily , then one day I just thought bollocks if other people can do it so can I and then I just lent into it as much as I could and ever since then it hasn't bothered me atall
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on June 12, 2014, 04:06:36 PM
I used to be completely unable to do right handed corners some sort of mental block (this is only recent) and I just refused to lean into it can do lefts no problem can scrape my elbow quite happily , then one day I just thought bollocks if other people can do it so can I and then I just lent into it as much as I could and ever since then it hasn't bothered me atall
Your posts truly worry me.....
Quote from: Gilby104 on June 12, 2014, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on June 12, 2014, 04:06:36 PM
I used to be completely unable to do right handed corners some sort of mental block (this is only recent) and I just refused to lean into it can do lefts no problem can scrape my elbow quite happily , then one day I just thought bollocks if other people can do it so can I and then I just lent into it as much as I could and ever since then it hasn't bothered me atall
Your posts truly worry me.....
quiet you!
Quote from: Gilby104 on June 12, 2014, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on June 12, 2014, 04:06:36 PM
I used to be completely unable to do right handed corners some sort of mental block (this is only recent) and I just refused to lean into it can do lefts no problem can scrape my elbow quite happily , then one day I just thought bollocks if other people can do it so can I and then I just lent into it as much as I could and ever since then it hasn't bothered me atall
Your posts truly worry me.....
:rofl:
:sign5:
I've said this before.
But doesn't the "I'm with stupid" arrow mean "the person at whom this arrow is pointing is stupid"?
Rather than "I agree with the person at whom this arrow is pointing"?
It comes from those T-shirts that they had years ago.
Please don't reply to this post with the "I'm with stupid" arrow...
Quote from: captain sensible on June 12, 2014, 10:24:12 AM
Something I've noticed when I'm riding is that during corners I just can't seem to lean much, a bit like a mental block.
Has anyone had this and what did you do to over come it?
Its not only about - its about experience and learning, with those two things comes confidence in understanding whats safe and whats not at a given speed.
Go learn whats possible, then develop some experience of doing it in a safe(ish) environment, then if you so wish do it somewhere less safe (road) etc etc.
Quote...understanding whats safe and whats not at a given speed
If not free instruction from No Limits, what's your recommendation for how to learn this, starting, say, from a novice group at a track day sort of level?
Not being facetious. Serious question.
As already stated track days give you massive confidence in your bike which is what it comes down to. You need to understand the it's of your bike and push it. Until you understand your bikes limits you will have no idea how far you can push it.
Get on track and go out of your comfort zone a tad.
Do a proper school. California Superbike School is great. Seems expensive but you'll get more out of a day learning a system with a proper instructor than doing Trackdays listening to well intentioned advice from people hanging around you.
Quote from: David W on June 13, 2014, 06:36:04 AM
Do a proper school. California Superbike School is great. Seems expensive but you'll get more out of a day learning a system with a proper instructor than doing Trackdays listening to well intentioned advice from people hanging around you.
+1
Whilst I'm not a fan of the CSS process per se, serious tuition is an order of magnitude better than the bulk of trackday instructors.
So in the UK that means CSS, Mike Edwards, one or two of the FE instructors, notably Andy Pitt and depending on your level Haslams elite school. In Europe Crafar every day of the week.
Quote from: Stuno1 on June 12, 2014, 09:16:27 PM
Get on track and go out of your comfort zone a tad.
Recipe for disaster...
Quote from: tucola on June 12, 2014, 08:01:09 PM
Quote...understanding whats safe and whats not at a given speed
If not free instruction from No Limits, what's your recommendation for how to learn this, starting, say, from a novice group at a track day sort of level?
Not being facetious. Serious question.
See below fella.
If people spent time in coaching and less time worrying about the bling most would be a lot faster and a lot safer. The biggest issue I observe is that people ride at a decent level but do it in a high risk way - trying to find speed in the wrong places. Not using the track to their advantage etc.... These are basic skills that push the safety envelope out and allow you to develop speed safely in as low a risk manner as possible.
If you don't get the basics right, as you get faster the risks increase considerably.
I looked in to getting some tuition with Mike Edwards but for Brands or Snetterton it was £750 on top of the track day
He does protect his pupils if Oulton was anything to go by.
Not wanting to shove between him and his pupil, who was too slow for the group, meant trying to pass both of them cleanly which was easier said than done as Mike placed himself to prevent any passing unless you went way off line at each corner.
It did get frustrating, but then again if I was quicker I could have passed easier and he did wave me past on one ocassion.
I am surprised that an experienced instructor did not appreciate the speed difference between his pupil and the rest of the group and move the pair of them down.
Part of the reason for where he positions himself is that he's filming the entire session to provide feedback.
Not really any different than coming across any 2 bikes riding closely to each other at a similar pace?
As far as the op goes, seat time on familiar roads would be a good start. Even novice group track time wouldn't help unless you are confident.
Some road based training from a experianced instructor might be another option?
Maybe I was just being too polite not wanting to get between them.
That's a good attitude to have on a track day.
Quote from: mc101 on June 13, 2014, 06:52:04 AM
Quote from: Stuno1 on June 12, 2014, 09:16:27 PM
Get on track and go out of your comfort zone a tad.
Recipe for disaster...
Haha... Could be. Worked for me though.
Quote from: tucola on June 12, 2014, 05:38:24 PM
I've said this before.
But doesn't the "I'm with stupid" arrow mean "the person at whom this arrow is pointing is stupid"?
Rather than "I agree with the person at whom this arrow is pointing"?
It comes from those T-shirts that they had years ago.
Please don't reply to this post with the "I'm with stupid" arrow...
:sign5: :tongue:
:iamwithstupid:
I think that's the correct way to use it?
:)
:)
Quote from: captain sensible on June 12, 2014, 10:24:12 AM
Something I've noticed when I'm riding is that during corners I just can't seem to lean much, a bit like a mental block.
Has anyone had this and what did you do to over come it?
Maybe this could help
http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/
Quote from: Dom1 on June 13, 2014, 09:28:50 AM
He does protect his pupils if Oulton was anything to go by.
Not wanting to shove between him and his pupil, who was too slow for the group, meant trying to pass both of them cleanly which was easier said than done as Mike placed himself to prevent any passing unless you went way off line at each corner.
It did get frustrating, but then again if I was quicker I could have passed easier and he did wave me past on one ocassion.
I am surprised that an experienced instructor did not appreciate the speed difference between his pupil and the rest of the group and move the pair of them down.
If I'd paid money for a trackday I think I'd be pretty pissed off about that. If you're learning/teaching you're going to considerably slower than a trackday pace, at least at first.
But if the guy under instruction was that much slower than those behind him, they wouldn't have any problem getting passed.
No different to what the TDO's offer themselves - ie an instructor shadowing another rider.
Very wet day, dog slow in the corners where you could not pass anyway due to the instructor, then gassing it on a bigger bike than mine on the straights.
Not impossible to pass but not easy, freight train behind him every session.
If the guy was that slow then outright power shouldn't really help him stay ahead at Oulton. If you can catch then you should be able to pass unless there's only 2 or 3 secs a lap between you.
Easiest way to deal with a situation like that is do a pit lane ride through.
Stop polishing and blinging bikes. Get out and ride them, that usually helps :azn:
For me, i kind of find im the same as the OP
When im on track in novice im generally alone......i push the bike into the corners as much as i think i can as im afraid of crashing. When i had an FE instructor take me out for a session he took the same corner far far quicker than me. This helped me understand that im a pussy.....and......that the corner can be taken quicker without any added danger.
I suppose its the unknown. If you dont know you can lean the bike over or carry speed through then you wont do it.
As many have said....tuition on a track will help. Just take it steady and dont try to become too fast to quick.