http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/video_mother_allows_release_of_hard_hitting_footage_of_her_son_s_motorcyle_death_on_a47_1_3757629 (http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/video_mother_allows_release_of_hard_hitting_footage_of_her_son_s_motorcyle_death_on_a47_1_3757629)
Struggling to find anything to say
Makes you think adn I suppose that's the idea.
Shocking though
wow. It hits home!
Definately makes you think
Bloody hell :( even at safe speed that was unavoidable.
thats life for yer.. not quite sure what they are trying to get across to the bikers other than.. doesn't matter how you ride some blind twat could kill you.. he wasn't riding like a prick, nothing he could of done in that scenario.. if it makes car drivers think and look a little more then i cant complain..
Have to agree with all of the above
What happenened to the driver of the car?
I think thats all that they are trying to get across, just to make both drivers/riders think a bit more.
It says the driver of the car was prosecuted, but I cant see an outcome.
There is a very nasty junction on the A417 just before Blunsdon Hill near Swindon. Been loads of accdents there where people lurch into the path of cars on the dual carriageway. Speed limit is 70 down there, doesn't stop them still chancing it. If you pull ino the path of another vehicle which has priority, then it doesn't matter how fast they are going, you still caused the accident with your actions.
Quote from: terry950sm on September 04, 2014, 06:57:57 PM
Have to agree with all of the above
What happenened to the driver of the car?
"The 38-year-old was an experienced motorcyclist, who had been travelling at speeds of up to 97mph as he returned home to Sprowston from King's Lynn on June 8 last year but an inquest heard that driver Benjamin Austin would have had sight of him and his bike for seven seconds before the collision.
Austin, 29, of Long Lane, Stoke Holy Cross, pleaded guilty to causing death by careless driving in April and was disqualified from driving for 18 months and ordered to carry out 130 hours' unpaid work."
So basically the driver got the same sort of ban that the guy on the bike would have got if he was caught doing the 97mph they've reported.
Nice piece of victim blaming there.
Quote from: m6rk on September 04, 2014, 06:47:51 PM
thats life for yer.. not quite sure what they are trying to get across to the bikers other than.. doesn't matter how you ride some blind twat could kill you.. he wasn't riding like a prick, nothing he could of done in that scenario.. if it makes car drivers think and look a little more then i cant complain..
Careless driving on both parts IMO. I think they've released the video to scare the shit out of drivers and riders equally and get them to pay more attention - certainly made me think.
At 60 I think that could have been a very different story. Couple more seconds for car to see the bike, half a second more for the bike to react (probably could have gone behind him with a split second more to decide) and a lesser chance that he'd have been killed outright.
Not putting the blame with the rider, just saying that a slower speed might have saved his life - and that's worth thinking about.
Quote from: David W on September 05, 2014, 09:33:06 AM
So basically the driver got the same sort of ban that the guy on the bike would have got if he was caught doing the 97mph they've reported.
Nice piece of victim blaming there.
Would imagine they took into account that both drivers played a part in the outcome?
Sorry, looks like I am trying to be antagonistic (which I'm not, just feel quite strongly about the subject). Whatever my opinion it's really bloody sad. RIP David Holmes
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 05, 2014, 09:34:09 AM
Not putting the blame with the rider, just saying that a slower speed might have saved his life - and that's worth thinking about.
I sort of agree, although I have found in my own experience that when I slow down for junctions it almost
encourages people to pull out on me, because they think there is sufficient gap.
Bit of a lose/lose situation on occasion...
wow!
we've all (most?) exceeded the speed limit but that's a hell of a price to pay
not gonna get into the blame game will just feel sad a life taken so young
TBH its why I have changed my road bike to an old Africa Twin and the ZX7R will be turned into a track bike
Getting older (50 in 6 days) with a wife and young family I'm happier pootling around at 60-70 and will save the high speeds for Cadwell Park
Ride safe everyone
It affected me quite a bit watching that.
Not least because I know I've done plenty worse many, many times - not saying he was being silly just going a bit quick that's all - I'm probably with most in thinking that the car driver was way more to blame - as Gilby says though, at 60mph it would have bought both him & the car driver more TIME to possibly avoid a fatality.
His poor family - very sad.
R.I.P.
It is a pretty shocking video but demonstrates to me the reason why I assume that every car either waiting at or manoeuvring for a junction is trying to kill me.
Looking at the damage to the car, and the fact that the poor sod did not appear to be thrown very far indicates that all of the energy in the collision was dissipated in a very short space of time. The same collision at 50 mph means the kinetic energy involved would be 4 times less, at 60 mph 3 times less. I am thankful that all my many offs have only ever involved a long and graceful slide.
RIP
I struggle with these videos...the loss of life is of course tragic...but they only serve to make people feel ill for a short time...most if not all car drivers watching that would blame the speed of the biker...so no learning there...with the greatest of respect to the family for their loss I can only see the release of this footage feeding the Anti bike brigade.
Mirror the sentiments about feeling for the family etc. but shit happens unfortunately. If he had been going slower the car would have turned before he got there, if he had been going faster it would have turned after he passed. Simplistic but it's just a case of wrong place, wrong time.
I'd be very interested to look into stopping distances, reaction times, perceived closing speeds, aspect etc etc in this case.
My bet would be if he had been doing a lot closer to the speed limit he'd still be alive. 97 on an A road with that sort of junction at any time is risky as fuck. Slowing down and trusting nobody is the name of the game.
I also wonder if his attempts at missing the car cost him his life? It looks like the throw into the undergrowth might have seen him hit a tree etc rather than sailing straight ahead down the road and not having such a violent impact???
Any way you look at it. Tragic :-(
Agree with all the CWS, and he would've known that's a black spot on the A47 so should also have been slowing. Notorious spot for crossings & hgv's pulling out. All useless in hindsight & horrid accident.
It's a tragedy but I agree with Moz, he should have taken more responsibility for himself.
The driver admitted in court he didn't see him because he didn't look.
Quote from: David W on September 05, 2014, 07:05:50 PM
The driver admitted in court he didn't see him because he didn't look.
Fair enough but I suspect a driver would have a much better chance of seeing a biker doing 60-65 at a junction than 97.
Driver should have looked, biker should have ridden more defensively at a point in the road where the hazard is higher.
As I said, avoidable and tragic.
The car driver has accepted his part...and has received his sentence...he will also have to live the rest of his life with the memory of this horrific event...the biker paid for his actions with his life...no winners here.
Hit a car head on moving at 10 mph whilst doing 40 yourself and you have a collision speed of 50 mph. Then read stuff like this and if believed you can die at much lower speeds in a head on. http://www.learn-2-live.org.uk/speed
Over 1.5m views in 24 hours.
Quote from: ash on September 05, 2014, 09:20:29 PM
Hit a car head on moving at 10 mph whilst doing 40 yourself and you have a collision speed of 50 mph. Then read stuff like this and if believed you can die at much lower speeds in a head on. http://www.learn-2-live.org.uk/speed
Some of the statements in that link are pathetic...if you speed then you're likely to drink drive too...utter fucking stupidity to make such a connection...
There is not a driver in the whole wide world that hasn't broke the speed limit at some point.
The worrying issue is that innatentive behaviour and poor judgment which caused the driver of the car to cross the path of the bike when they didn't have priority is portayed as the lesser of the evils. It isn't the speed itself which kills, it is connecting with something else which does.
Those junctions scare the shit out of me, there's no way I'd approach one at anything like that speed.
How is a car supposed to judge distance when you're going that fast?....... The driver in this instance admitted to not seeing the bike, but at that speed you also run the risk of a car driver thinking there's room to turn and all of a sudden the bike; which was 200 yards away is embedded in his back door.
Ride slow kids, find corners.
Quote from: ash on September 06, 2014, 09:33:00 AM
The worrying issue is that innatentive behaviour and poor judgment which caused the driver of the car to cross the path of the bike when they didn't have priority is portayed as the lesser of the evils. It isn't the speed itself which kills, it is connecting with something else which does.
The way I see this is that most non biking car drivers have little or no concept of how quickly a bike can travel...so we as bikers must bear that responsibility...to me the speed of the biker entering this type of road layout was the biggest factor...the driver of the car did not deliberately cut across his path...he had a moment of ill judgement and lack of attention that we all have had at some point....fortunately most of us get away with a close call and a rush of adrenaline....97mph is a fair turn of speed to be going at this point in the road...he was an experienced rider and should have eased off....passed by...then back on the throttle.
Was he travelling at 97mph just before the collision or had trip involved speeds up to 97mph??
Quote from: Druid on September 10, 2014, 09:29:18 AM
Was he travelling at 97mph just before the collision or had trip involved speeds up to 97mph??
Good point - didn't look 97 to me.
Quote from: Druid on September 10, 2014, 09:29:18 AM
Was he traveling at 97mph just before the collision or had trip involved speeds up to 97mph??
As I read it he was traveling at speeds of 97mph on the approach to the junction...what the collision speed was I don't know...as an experience Motorcyclist and one that likes to tramp on a bit I would still ease up approaching these junctions...they are by design a danger to all road users....the A9 up here is notorious and is littered with these junctions...many lives have been lost...Overhead bypasses are the only solution...but money is needed.
Quotethats life for yer.. not quite sure what they are trying to get across to the bikers other than.. doesn't matter how you ride some blind twat could kill you
Terribly fucking sad for this bloke and his family, but ultimately, this ^^^
I wrote off my J2 by running into someone's front wing when they pulled out in front of me. And they actually went through a red light in order to do so. I wasn't doing more than 40mph but still didn't have time to avoid the collision because - as appears to have been the case here - they pulled out only as I was right upon them. How the fuck didn't they see me? Why the fuck did they run a red light? Who the fuck knows?
I was lucky enough to come off the bike, fly over the bonnet, bounce along the road a little bit and come to a stop without hitting anything or behing run over. But could very easily have been worse.
Yeh, yeh, you've got to ride defensively, anticipate the worst, etc, but do people really ride on the basis that every twat at a junction is going to wait until you're right upon them, then pull out? That essentially means 10mph past every junction with a vehicle at it...
Here's another one for you: what about when someone has gone into a similar central turning lane, but to turn right
off the A-road? Do you ride past at 97, 60, 50 or whatever? Or slow down to 10, on the basis that they might change their mind, pull back onto the A-road without looking, and take you out? (Or even do so deliberately in order to manufacture a crash and seek to claim on your insurance - that's happened to me as well, albeit in the car - once again, not doing more than 40mph in a 60 limit to make the pass but couldn't avoid the collision - and badaboom badabing that was my Focus-ST written off - slowed me down even more passing people in this situation, I can tell you...).
Ultimately, the slower you go, the safer you are, I guess. So you slow down a bit with age, experience and a few lucky escapes there but for the grace of god go we all. But some twat will still get you in the end if it's your time.
What this is saying is that irrespective of who has priority, the scrutiny is always going to be to mitigate against blame for the actions of the vehicle turning across the carriageway...
Quote from: tucola on September 10, 2014, 10:48:50 AM
Ultimately, the slower you go, the safer you are..... But some twat will still get you in the end if it's your time.
Don't disagree, there will always be the odd exception but a lot (I'd say the majority of it) can be taken out of it if people chose I'd suggest. There will always be a diesel spill or a blown tyre or a homicidal maniac going for the kill but I'd suggest you can get the chances of hurting yourself down to a very low chance with the right manner of riding.
I'm talking about getting the level of risk down to a level of risk that most would find acceptable in any other walk of daily life rather than eliminate it completely (after all, we could all get hit by a bus tomorrow etc etc).
If you don't believe that then I have no idea what any of us are doing on a motorbike in the first place.