Had a little run in with a chap driving a van today which got me thinking.
At traffic lights, if there's room I slowly filter my way to the front.... occasionally if the lights change before I get there, rather than carrying on to filter, I drop in behind the car or van in front.
Today I had a van driver take umbrage with me for doing exactly that, I pulled in behind the car in front of him and thus, in his opinion forced myself in.
So we had a little chat where he explained that he's busy and needs to be somewhere and I jump the queue and hold him up....... I retorted by acknowledging his point but thought he was being petty as we're talking micro seconds..... not the sort of time which is going to get the lad fired..... right.
I suppose what I've done could be interpreted as rude?
I'm not sure what the options are.... take my place at the back of the queue or continue to filter in the moving traffic and get to the front ASAP (not always possible as traffic tends to close up when moving).
Advice, as always, welcomed.
http://www.beginnerbiker.com/filtering-motorway-dual-carriageway/
Very useful thanks Terry.
Reading in to that then I suppose it's inevitable that you have to fall in line eventually and a car will have to make way for you.
Terry's link doesn't seem to work for me.
But in my view Mr Van is being a fucking twat.
What you're doing is absolutely fine.
Most people would agree it was acceptable.......but....you always get one or 2 that dont. Its a bit like the video of the fella that sadly lost his life on camera on his bike when a car pulled in front of him....
Hpwever.......The link isn't correct......AFAIA....(i learnt AFAIA the other day :)........re solid white lines.....it said you must not cross one.......
I thought you could to pass a stationary vehicle, push bike, slow moving thing going less than 10mph etc
Quote from: Maddog on September 16, 2014, 05:39:37 PM
Most people would agree it was acceptable.......but....you always get one or 2 that dont. Its a bit like the video of the fella that sadly lost his life on camera on his bike when a car pulled in front of him....
Hpwever.......The link isn't correct......AFAIA....(i learnt AFAIA the other day :)........re solid white lines.....it said you must not cross one.......
I thought you could to pass a stationary vehicle, push bike, slow moving thing going less than 10mph etc
From what I remember of the theory test that is correct.
I'd do what you do Dan in most instances
Quote from: terry950sm on September 16, 2014, 04:58:11 PM
http://www.beginnerbiker.com/filtering-motorway-dual-carriageway/
This is what i was taught. There are still a lot of people who believe it is illegal/wrong to filter. I had a disagreement with one such person a while back who said they straddle lanes to stop bikes passing. Maybe a police video about filtering would be good.
Wouldn't worry about it, I do exactly the same every morning and think nothing of it. Providing you do it slowly and don't actually cut anyone up when the traffic starts moving I see no problem.
If Mr Van Man was on a motorbike, would he sit at the back of the queue, or would he do what you did? Being a van driver he'd probably just shove his way to the front and not care, so you've already been more considerate than him.
Sounds like an asshole to me
Not much you can do about people with those sorts of opinions. There is nothing inconvenient about letting in another road user that will be out of your way in a moment - same reason I despise needlessly aggressive behavior to pedestrians / cyclist etc.
What I would say is, even if you concede that what you are doing is rude, hanging someone out to dry and blocking their path is dangerous and I dare say illegal. I know you're not allowed to speed up whilst being overtaken to prevent exactly that sort of behavior. Being dangerous on the roads isn't acceptable and I'd hope plod would side with you in those circumstances.
I am pretty inconsistent in my approach to situations like that. I've gone from dropping a car back and letting them have the 'win' to doing another 4 cars and jumping in a later (much more dangerous) gap to prove a point - to simply moving across pretending to be oblivious to their attempts to block me out and finding out whether they really think the size of their penis is something they actually want to have a crash about. I'm lucky never to have judged any of the above wrong.... although i am sure it's not impossible.
People that filter with High Beam on need a good fucking slap though.
Quote from: David W on September 17, 2014, 04:01:03 PM
People that filter with High Beam on need a good fucking slap though.
uuuuuhhhhhhmmm.... I .... uhhhh, um, hmmmm .... I filter with high beam on!!
I do it on dual carriageways and motorways when I'm filtering in stopped traffic when lane changers and door openers love to carry out their movement without the slightest glance in the mirror. I reckon you've got to get their attention rather then rely on them.
I know it's rude but it does seem a whole lot safer
Quote from: David W on September 17, 2014, 04:01:03 PM
People that filter with High Beam on need a good fucking slap though.
Well said that man :thumbsup:
And apart from the fact that it burns out the retinas when someone looks in their mirrors, and is illegal, it also causes confusion as drivers who are dopey enough as they are have even less chance of guaging speed and distance, and.......... In the event of a crash, you are loking at some serious contributory negligence so your compensation could be seriously reduced or compromised, possibly as low as 100% so you could get nothing at all or very little.
Quote from: T.C on September 17, 2014, 05:04:23 PM
Quote from: David W on September 17, 2014, 04:01:03 PM
People that filter with High Beam on need a good fucking slap though.
Well said that man :thumbsup:
And apart from the fact that it burns out the retinas when someone looks in their mirrors, and is illegal, it also causes confusion as drivers who are dopey enough as they are have even less chance of guaging speed and distance, and.......... In the event of a crash, you are loking at some serious contributory negligence so your compensation could be seriously reduced or compromised, possibly as low as 100% so you could get nothing at all or very little.
*dips beams*
I do the same, filter to the front and drop into traffic if it starts moving.
Quote from: Dav1d01 on September 24, 2014, 12:57:08 PM
I do the same, filter to the front and drop into traffic if it starts moving.
me too :azn:
Quote from: David W on September 17, 2014, 04:01:03 PM
People that filter with High Beam on need a good fucking slap though.
That's me, when the sun is low in the morning, to give those I'm about to pass, every opportunity to see me.
Most of my regular customers( those 100 or so I pass every morning at around the same time) will move aside to give me space to pass their <40mph queue on A road single carriageway, once on dual carriageway people are more reluctant to move over.
I always filter to the front at any lights, bikes take no space and slow down no other user by doing so, we are doing them a favour by riding bike to work instead of a car
So blinding sun or your blinding high beam?
I suppose it's never entered your mind you might actually be causing a problem for others while you go about your self-righteous little way?
High beam from behind is never going to blind during daylight hours, my safety is paramount but im not out to harm others, just let them know I'm here. They still take ages to see me and that is dangerous
Got to agree. High beam in daylight is never going to blind anyone, but it should grab their attention
So you don't think that your double 55W high beams, shining into a wing mirror from 20 ft away, that is 2ft away from someone else's eyes is going to dazzle them? Seriously?
You do know that it is physiologically impossible to judge distance at all when you've got a light shining in your eyes don't you?
Where's that forehead slap picture.....
Must admit that I have considered using full beam when filtering as it is very effective at getting your attention and surely that is the point so that the person does not to change lane, as opposed to allowing people to judge how much time they have to jump lane, no?
Quote from: DaveH on September 27, 2014, 12:02:50 PM
Must admit that I have considered using full beam when filtering as it is very effective at getting your attention and surely that is the point so that the person does not to change lane, as opposed to allowing people to judge how much time they have to jump lane, no?
I go back to my earlier post. :huh:
So on that basis you will be the first to moan when someone hits you, not because they could not see you, but becaue you burnt out their retinas in the rear view mirror, creates what is called the halo affect meaning that drivers are unable to judge your speed and distance because you are hidden behind the halo, which also leaves you liable for a big degree of contributory negligence in the event of a crash because you become part of the cause, and................ You leave yourself open to a fine, points and/or disqialification for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users (a sub section of careless driving).
I love it when people tell me after a crash in a self rightous way that they were on high beam and then to see the look on their face when I tell them that may might lose a big chunk of compensation because of their actions and they are leaving themselves open to prosecution.
If you are going to ride on high beam even in daylight, then don't whinge when you end up being pulled by plod and booked, or complain when you get hit and blame the other driver for not seeing you. I have no sympathy for you.
Quote from: T.C on September 27, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: DaveH on September 27, 2014, 12:02:50 PM
Must admit that I have considered using full beam when filtering as it is very effective at getting your attention and surely that is the point so that the person does not to change lane, as opposed to allowing people to judge how much time they have to jump lane, no?
I go back to my earlier post. :huh:
So on that basis you will be the first to moan when someone hits you, not because they could not see you, but becaue you burnt out their retinas in the rear view mirror, creates what is called the halo affect meaning that drivers are unable to judge your speed and distance because you are hidden behind the halo, which also leaves you liable for a big degree of contributory negligence in the event of a crash because you become part of the cause, and................ You leave yourself open to a fine, points and/or disqialification for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users (a sub section of careless driving).
I love it when people tell me after a crash in a self rightous way that they were on high beam and then to see the look on their face when I tell them that may might lose a big chunk of compensation because of their actions and they are leaving themselves open to prosecution.
If you are going to ride on high beam even in daylight, then don't whinge when you end up being pulled by plod and booked, or complain when you get hit and blame the other driver for not seeing you. I have no sympathy for you.
What T.C. said, riding on High beam when filtering, or any other situation where it is NOT needed or legal to do so is just downright selfish and stupid.
Quote from: T.C on September 27, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: DaveH on September 27, 2014, 12:02:50 PM
Must admit that I have considered using full beam when filtering as it is very effective at getting your attention and surely that is the point so that the person does not to change lane, as opposed to allowing people to judge how much time they have to jump lane, no?
I go back to my earlier post. :huh:
So on that basis you will be the first to moan when someone hits you, not because they could not see you, but becaue you burnt out their retinas in the rear view mirror, creates what is called the halo affect meaning that drivers are unable to judge your speed and distance because you are hidden behind the halo, which also leaves you liable for a big degree of contributory negligence in the event of a crash because you become part of the cause, and................ You leave yourself open to a fine, points and/or disqialification for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users (a sub section of careless driving).
I love it when people tell me after a crash in a self rightous way that they were on high beam and then to see the look on their face when I tell them that may might lose a big chunk of compensation because of their actions and they are leaving themselves open to prosecution.
If you are going to ride on high beam even in daylight, then don't whinge when you end up being pulled by plod and booked, or complain when you get hit and blame the other driver for not seeing you. I have no sympathy for you.
Fair enough :thumbright:
Knew that full beam did make it harder to judge distances, wasn't referring to filtering with on coming traffic. Had been in the car before when a bike was filtering with highbeam and wasn't dazzled by it as it a momentary thing as they were by in a matter of seconds, but was easily noticed and far more cars reacted to the bike being there and making more room, which is why I didn't see it as a bad thing per se (Centre of two lanes of very slow traffic on dual carriage way)
Quote from: T.C on September 27, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: DaveH on September 27, 2014, 12:02:50 PM
Must admit that I have considered using full beam when filtering as it is very effective at getting your attention and surely that is the point so that the person does not to change lane, as opposed to allowing people to judge how much time they have to jump lane, no?
I go back to my earlier post. :huh:
So on that basis you will be the first to moan when someone hits you, not because they could not see you, but becaue you burnt out their retinas in the rear view mirror, creates what is called the halo affect meaning that drivers are unable to judge your speed and distance because you are hidden behind the halo, which also leaves you liable for a big degree of contributory negligence in the event of a crash because you become part of the cause, and................ You leave yourself open to a fine, points and/or disqialification for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users (a sub section of careless driving).
I love it when people tell me after a crash in a self rightous way that they were on high beam and then to see the look on their face when I tell them that may might lose a big chunk of compensation because of their actions and they are leaving themselves open to prosecution.
If you are going to ride on high beam even in daylight, then don't whinge when you end up being pulled by plod and booked, or complain when you get hit and blame the other driver for not seeing you. I have no sympathy for you.
woah woah woah, what's with the witch hunt? I've admitted to filtering on full beam in specific circumstances, but not to be a cunt, in an attempt to stay safer. Happy to be educated but don't understand the hatred, or why you'd revel in telling people they'd fucked themselves by riding on full beam.
As it happens i will likely be following your advice in the future (I have no doubt you know exactly what you're talking about and I know your knowledge of court cases is outstanding) but I can't believe there are no safety benefits at all to high beam filtering through stopped / v.slow moving traffic on trunk roads. I have personally missed bike headlights in a sea of headlights when changing lanes in that situation where as full beam jumps out and even if dazzled for a second you know it's a bike and you know not to move.... which are the two things I was aiming to achieve from filtering with h. beam on?
(I'm not saying that they would stop more accidents than they'd cause but I do think there are circumstances when they'd have stopped accidents that would have occurred with dipped beam)
Quote from: Green_Ninja on September 27, 2014, 03:38:25 PM
Quote from: T.C on September 27, 2014, 01:06:09 PM
Quote from: DaveH on September 27, 2014, 12:02:50 PM
Must admit that I have considered using full beam when filtering as it is very effective at getting your attention and surely that is the point so that the person does not to change lane, as opposed to allowing people to judge how much time they have to jump lane, no?
I go back to my earlier post. :huh:
So on that basis you will be the first to moan when someone hits you, not because they could not see you, but becaue you burnt out their retinas in the rear view mirror, creates what is called the halo affect meaning that drivers are unable to judge your speed and distance because you are hidden behind the halo, which also leaves you liable for a big degree of contributory negligence in the event of a crash because you become part of the cause, and................ You leave yourself open to a fine, points and/or disqialification for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users (a sub section of careless driving).
I love it when people tell me after a crash in a self rightous way that they were on high beam and then to see the look on their face when I tell them that may might lose a big chunk of compensation because of their actions and they are leaving themselves open to prosecution.
If you are going to ride on high beam even in daylight, then don't whinge when you end up being pulled by plod and booked, or complain when you get hit and blame the other driver for not seeing you. I have no sympathy for you.
What T.C. said, riding on High beam when filtering, or any other situation where it is NOT needed or legal to do so is just downright selfish and stupid.
Sorry guys, not trying to wind people up, but I have a broken hip that says dip beam is not enough in some circumstances
and when others have a low sun in their eyes my paltry halogens are not going to dazzle them or cause any effect detrimental to my safety
what does the law say about US style glimmering lights where the intensity is raised/lowered without flickering, as an aid to visiblity by others
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 01:32:46 PM
woah woah woah, what's with the witch hunt? I've admitted to filtering on full beam in specific circumstances, but not to be a cunt, in an attempt to stay safer. Happy to be educated but don't understand the hatred, or why you'd revel in telling people they'd fucked themselves by riding on full beam.
As it happens i will likely be following your advice in the future (I have no doubt you know exactly what you're talking about and I know your knowledge of court cases is outstanding) but I can't believe there are no safety benefits at all to high beam filtering through stopped / v.slow moving traffic on trunk roads. I have personally missed bike headlights in a sea of headlights when changing lanes in that situation where as full beam jumps out and even if dazzled for a second you know it's a bike and you know not to move.... which are the two things I was aiming to achieve from filtering with h. beam on?
(I'm not saying that they would stop more accidents than they'd cause but I do think there are circumstances when they'd have stopped accidents that would have occurred with dipped beam)
I am not on a witch hunt, I was simply making a comment in response to your statement of fact. My court experience has nothing to do with my comments, my comments were made on exprience of motorcycle cases I have been involved in as a result of crashes that have occured as a result of displaying high beam.
There is no hatred on my part either, I was simply pointing out fact and that you are not only p1ssing of a lot of people (me included), but the predicament you could find yourself in when it all goes pear shaped.
I have no authority to stop you using high beam, I have no desire or interest in telling you how to ride or what to do, but, there are those out there who will be the first to whinge and comlplain when they find themselves out of pocket and facing massive losses when something goes wrong which could have been avoided.
And show me that there is a proven safety benefit, and I will be happy to accept it, but I can and will show you an equal number of serious crashes that have occured because of high beam.
Dipped beam? Fine, but high beam causes (at the risk of repeating myself) the halo affect and this is where the problem lies, and as I can testify to from yesterday, a bike came up behind me filtering on high beam, and apart from the fact that it took a few minutes for my eyes to refocus after seeing the lights in my rear view mirror, there were a couple of other drivers who literally failed to judge speed and distance of the approaching bike and nearly had him off.
How do I know? I followed them into the services, and they were not old or youngsters, and so I asked them, and the reply I got was that they saw the bike and they thought it was further back and travelling slower than it actually was, but because theie eyes lost focus due to the beam bounding off their rear view mirror, it was only when the bike was on top of them that they realised just how close the bike was and that they managed to get out of the way just in time.
So not a witch hunt, quite the contrary. But please feel free to continue as you deem fit!!!
Thanks T.C., very helpful info as ever...
I had not been accustomed to using main beam to filter during the day, but certainly won't do so now.
Dipped beam is always on, of course, given the age of the bike.
Let's face it, if you filter with high beam on then I'm afraid you are a little bit of cnut. Soz.
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on September 29, 2014, 03:11:10 PM
Let's face it, if you filter with high beam on then I'm afraid you are a little bit of cnut. Soz.
oh yeah sure..... but not "trying" to be one!
Quote from: T.C on September 29, 2014, 02:13:28 PM
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 01:32:46 PM
woah woah woah, what's with the witch hunt? I've admitted to filtering on full beam in specific circumstances, but not to be a cunt, in an attempt to stay safer. Happy to be educated but don't understand the hatred, or why you'd revel in telling people they'd fucked themselves by riding on full beam.
As it happens i will likely be following your advice in the future (I have no doubt you know exactly what you're talking about and I know your knowledge of court cases is outstanding) but I can't believe there are no safety benefits at all to high beam filtering through stopped / v.slow moving traffic on trunk roads. I have personally missed bike headlights in a sea of headlights when changing lanes in that situation where as full beam jumps out and even if dazzled for a second you know it's a bike and you know not to move.... which are the two things I was aiming to achieve from filtering with h. beam on?
(I'm not saying that they would stop more accidents than they'd cause but I do think there are circumstances when they'd have stopped accidents that would have occurred with dipped beam)
I am not on a witch hunt, I was simply making a comment in response to your statement of fact. My court experience has nothing to do with my comments, my comments were made on exprience of motorcycle cases I have been involved in as a result of crashes that have occured as a result of displaying high beam.
There is no hatred on my part either, I was simply pointing out fact and that you are not only p1ssing of a lot of people (me included), but the predicament you could find yourself in when it all goes pear shaped.
I have no authority to stop you using high beam, I have no desire or interest in telling you how to ride or what to do, but, there are those out there who will be the first to whinge and comlplain when they find themselves out of pocket and facing massive losses when something goes wrong which could have been avoided.
And show me that there is a proven safety benefit, and I will be happy to accept it, but I can and will show you an equal number of serious crashes that have occured because of high beam.
Dipped beam? Fine, but high beam causes (at the risk of repeating myself) the halo affect and this is where the problem lies, and as I can testify to from yesterday, a bike came up behind me filtering on high beam, and apart from the fact that it took a few minutes for my eyes to refocus after seeing the lights in my rear view mirror, there were a couple of other drivers who literally failed to judge speed and distance of the approaching bike and nearly had him off.
How do I know? I followed them into the services, and they were not old or youngsters, and so I asked them, and the reply I got was that they saw the bike and they thought it was further back and travelling slower than it actually was, but because theie eyes lost focus due to the beam bounding off their rear view mirror, it was only when the bike was on top of them that they realised just how close the bike was and that they managed to get out of the way just in time.
So not a witch hunt, quite the contrary. But please feel free to continue as you deem fit!!!
Then I've miss-read your previous post insofar as you said you love telling people that they may have ruined their case by riding with high beam. In my case, it would have been an mistake to ride on high beam and one where I thought I was doing the best thing (pretty specialist knowledge to know about the halo thing) - seems a little unreasonable if a lack of training or knowledge led to an accident that I'd be due no sympathy.
For the record I have every interest in listening to your advice and experience - I will most likely be following it.
My comments on what I have seen of high beam are based only on what I have seen from the bike or the car, they are anecdotal. I wouldn't expect you to except it as fact but I'd suggest it is at least as reliable as the people you spoke to in the service station.
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 03:50:09 PM
seems a little unreasonable if a lack of training or knowledge led to an accident that I'd be due no sympathy.
Remember, ignorance is no defence dear boy.
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on September 29, 2014, 03:55:20 PM
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 03:50:09 PM
seems a little unreasonable if a lack of training or knowledge led to an accident that I'd be due no sympathy.
Remember, ignorance is no defence dear boy.
Undeniably true. But I'd argue it is a reasonable mistake to make (which perhaps is not the case) and the law tends to work on the basis of what's reasonable and what's not as far as I understand.
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 03:50:09 PM
My comments on what I have seen of high beam are based only on what I have seen from the bike or the car, they are anecdotal. I wouldn't expect you to except it as fact but I'd suggest it is at least as reliable as the people you spoke to in the service station.
The example from yesterday was just coincidental and I mentioned it simply because it was so fresh in my mind, but there are plenty of other incidents I could refer to :azn:
And I take your point about what is reasonable or not (although it does not always work that way) . Main beam in these circumstances is not reasonable (night or day) ;)
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on September 29, 2014, 03:11:10 PM
Let's face it, if you filter with high beam on then I'm afraid you are a little bit of cnut. Soz.
oh yeah sure..... but not "trying" to be one!
I'm not having it that my dear friend Gilby is a little bit of a cnut...... he's actually a massive cunt!!
Don't you worry Gilboir, I've got your back.......
Quote from: T.C on September 29, 2014, 04:16:48 PM
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 03:50:09 PM
My comments on what I have seen of high beam are based only on what I have seen from the bike or the car, they are anecdotal. I wouldn't expect you to except it as fact but I'd suggest it is at least as reliable as the people you spoke to in the service station.
The example from yesterday was just coincidental and I mentioned it simply because it was so fresh in my mind, but there are plenty of other incidents I could refer to :azn:
And I take your point about what is reasonable or not (although it does not always work that way) . Main beam in these circumstances is not reasonable (night or day) ;)
I am sure there are other cases.... won't be any cases of full beam headlights avoiding accidents though!! ;)
Touche.
Quote from: Lord Danoir the first on September 29, 2014, 04:30:08 PM
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on September 29, 2014, 03:11:10 PM
Let's face it, if you filter with high beam on then I'm afraid you are a little bit of cnut. Soz.
oh yeah sure..... but not "trying" to be one!
I'm not having it that my dear friend Gilby is a little bit of a cnut...... he's actually a massive cunt!!
Don't you worry Gilboir, I've got your back.......
I know you've got my back Danoir..... it's a lovely warm feeling!
Wait a second, it's really warm.... and it smells like urine in here..... and what's all this chat about rain? :azn:
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 04:50:09 PM
I am sure there are other cases.... won't be any cases of full beam headlights avoiding accidents though!! ;)
Touche.
Not avoiding accidents, but causing accidents. :azn:
Quote from: T.C on September 29, 2014, 04:56:28 PM
Quote from: Gilby104 on September 29, 2014, 04:50:09 PM
I am sure there are other cases.... won't be any cases of full beam headlights avoiding accidents though!! ;)
Touche.
Not avoiding accidents, but causing accidents. :azn:
fuuuuck the internet...... the part of my brain that knows you knew what I meant and playing with me is being absolutely torn to shreds by the pedant who needs to make sure I'm acknowledged as the well reasoned genius (and cunt) that I am.... so I'm changing tact....
"my dad could have your dad"
much like tuc never used high beams or was aware people did?
I find having a noisy can and reving the bejuzuz out of bike has a much better effect in getting the attention of other road users ;)
Loud can definitely gets my attention :afro:
Have spent most of last week in a car commuting M1, M25, M4 and spending a lot of time stationary
It is very scary how little warning cagers get of an approaching bike coming up the white line, maybe 10 - 15 seconds and no amount of revving with a loud can will get through the radio blaring inside the soundproofing.
As a biker I was mostly on the lookout for bikes, but most of the others are simply frustrated at being stuck in gridlock
It is all about visiblity, pure and simple.
If you can't make yourself seen by the drivers you are about to pass then you are in very grave danger