a friend of mine recently bought a cheap bike hpi clear everything now has the log book etc but has noticed the engine numbers have been grounded off (properly this is literally nothing) shes worried that she may end up losing the bike anyone know of this although I can realistically only think of one reason someone would grind it off , there is no way it could be identified so am I right in assuming it has to be proved its stolen , not that its not stolen? if that makes sense
Doesn't the HPI check ask for the engine/frame numbers?
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on April 16, 2015, 11:47:54 AM
Doesn't the HPI check ask for the engine/frame numbers?
if it does she may have got it off the log book
I thought it just used the reg number , and gave you the vin and engine etc to see if they match?
In the old days I always used to check the paperwork to the bike ;)
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on April 16, 2015, 12:39:52 PM
In the old days I always used to check the paperwork to the bike ;)
it does make sense but some people I guess get excited in heat of the moment ive told her not to panic as its not the vin which has been removed but any info would be appreciated all ive found online is opinions really...
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on April 16, 2015, 12:39:52 PM
In the old days I always used to check the paperwork to the bike ;)
Surely unless you have checked the paperwork to the bike then all you have done is demonstrated that somewhere there is a bike with that number plate that is HPI clear.
It sounds like you've either got a numberplate on the bike that doesn't belong (if the real one exists then it'll be a fairly easy thing to prove). If you've got the right bike but someone has rebuilt it using dodgy (whether stolen or just mismatching) parts then I don't know. I can't imagine anyone will be looking for those parts.... or certainly not looking for them in your friends bike?
Quote from: Gilby104 on April 16, 2015, 12:49:10 PM
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on April 16, 2015, 12:39:52 PM
In the old days I always used to check the paperwork to the bike ;)
Surely unless you have checked the paperwork to the bike then all you have done is demonstrated that somewhere there is a bike with that number plate that is HPI clear.
It sounds like you've either got a numberplate on the bike that doesn't belong (if the real one exists then it'll be a fairly easy thing to prove). If you've got the right bike but someone has rebuilt it using dodgy (whether stolen or just mismatching) parts then I don't know. I can't imagine anyone will be looking for those parts.... or certainly not looking for them in your friends bike?
vin matchs up with the number plate what I personally think is someone changed the clocks and engine as millage dosent match up with previous mot's
In this case though Gilby the buyer would have noticed the lack of any engine number and walked away. Match the docs to the bike (VIN, Chassis, reg) and then do the HPI check if all ok.
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on April 16, 2015, 12:53:15 PM
In this case though Gilby the buyer would have noticed the lack of any engine number and walked away. Match the docs to the bike (VIN, Chassis, reg) and then do the HPI check if all ok.
if im honest ive bought a fair few bikes over the years and not always checked for engine numbers (always look for vin though)
is it possible to get it restamped?
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on April 16, 2015, 12:53:15 PM
In this case though Gilby the buyer would have noticed the lack of any engine number and walked away. Match the docs to the bike (VIN, Chassis, reg) and then do the HPI check if all ok.
Sorry, that's what I meant - the HPI only tells you what's on the system - not what's happened to that bike.
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on April 16, 2015, 12:53:15 PM
In this case though Gilby the buyer would have noticed the lack of any engine number and walked away. Match the docs to the bike (VIN, Chassis, reg) and then do the HPI check if all ok.
is it possible to get it restamped?
Physically possible? Or legally possible?
I'd argue nowhere would stamp an engine number for you without being able to verify the number they were stamping was the right one..... And therein lies the crux of this.
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 01:37:01 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 12:57:07 PM
Quote from: Tiiimmmaaayyyy on April 16, 2015, 12:53:15 PM
In this case though Gilby the buyer would have noticed the lack of any engine number and walked away. Match the docs to the bike (VIN, Chassis, reg) and then do the HPI check if all ok.
is it possible to get it restamped?
Physically possible? Or legally possible?
I'd argue nowhere would stamp an engine number for you without being able to verify the number they were stamping was the right one..... And therein lies the crux of this.
if im honest she wants it to look legal nudge nudge, as shes worried about losing the bike as she cant prove the engines not stolen
Restamping an engine block is harder to do than a VIN plate and personally I'd be concerned that any attempt to stamp it could look fake and then she opens herself up to a whole world of shit if someone does come knocking.
If it were me I'd either get shot of it ASAP, or enquire about the engine number and if nothing came up I'd just ride the damn thing. Either way it sounds like the price was too good to be true and now she's worried it might get taken away.
Ultimately if the VIN plate is genuine and matches the V5 she has a frame that's legally hers but everything bolted to it could be of questionable origin. Trying to make it look legit is just gonna bite her on the arse if she's not careful. I guess they'd have to prove it was made up of stolen bits, but more to the point, if it is, who put it together and does she trust it wasn't some mucky Albanian in a shed somewhere who has fuck all knowledge of mechanics.
The thing could be one ride away from falling apart of blowing up.
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 01:51:05 PM
Restamping an engine block is harder to do than a VIN plate and personally I'd be concerned that any attempt to stamp it could look fake and then she opens herself up to a whole world of shit if someone does come knocking.
If it were me I'd either get shot of it ASAP, or enquire about the engine number and if nothing came up I'd just ride the damn thing. Either way it sounds like the price was too good to be true and now she's worried it might get taken away.
Ultimately if the VIN plate is genuine and matches the V5 she has a frame that's legally hers but everything bolted to it could be of questionable origin. Trying to make it look legit is just gonna bite her on the arse if she's not careful. I guess they'd have to prove it was made up of stolen bits, but more to the point, if it is, who put it together and does she trust it wasn't some mucky Albanian in a shed somewhere who has fuck all knowledge of mechanics.
The thing could be one ride away from falling apart of blowing up.
its being thoroughly taken to bits at the moment to make sure its all safe etc what I was thinking was possibly engraving a small plate etc and putting that on the number she has is fine but there is no way to tell if that's the engine in there (my guess it isn't)
I wouldn't bother, I don't see how it realistically gains her anything. If noone ever looks then all is fine. But if they do (and you assume if they were looking for an engine number they would know what to look for) then they will know the engraving is fake and probably accuse her of tampering.
If it's the next buyer who looks for it then they may think it's legit, buy it and then could fall foul later on.
I can only see one reason to stamp the number on illegally, to dupe anyone looking at it into thinking it's genuine. And personally that's a shit storm I'd stay out of.
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 02:06:35 PM
I can only see one reason to stamp the number on illegally, to dupe anyone looking at it into thinking it's genuine. And personally that's a shit storm I'd stay out of.
I think shes just worried about e.g police routine stop etc as nobody seems to know the legal procedure
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 02:12:09 PM
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 02:06:35 PM
I can only see one reason to stamp the number on illegally, to dupe anyone looking at it into thinking it's genuine. And personally that's a shit storm I'd stay out of.
I think shes just worried about e.g police routine stop etc as nobody seems to know the legal procedure
She'll be in more shit if she's unlucky enough to get a Plod who DOES know his stuff. All the batting of eyelashes won't save her then.
And to be fair, Plod stopping you at the side of the road for something minor doesn't usually end up with checking of VIN and engine numbers, unless they have a reason to. And if they do they usually have guys trained in this kind of thing who will spot a fake engine number a mile away. I'd like to see her explain her genuine intentions then!
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 02:15:54 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 02:12:09 PM
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 02:06:35 PM
I can only see one reason to stamp the number on illegally, to dupe anyone looking at it into thinking it's genuine. And personally that's a shit storm I'd stay out of.
I think shes just worried about e.g police routine stop etc as nobody seems to know the legal procedure
She'll be in more shit if she's unlucky enough to get a Plod who DOES know his stuff. All the batting of eyelashes won't save her then.
And to be fair, Plod stopping you at the side of the road for something minor doesn't usually end up with checking of VIN and engine numbers, unless they have a reason to. And if they do they usually have guys trained in this kind of thing who will spot a fake engine number a mile away. I'd like to see her explain her genuine intentions then!
agreed I was hoping someone could back up my logic of if it cant be proved to be stolen "it isn't" etc
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 02:17:37 PM
I was hoping someone could back up my logic of if it cant be proved to be stolen "it isn't" etc
I'm not sure I'd call that logic. The only logic that could fit this scenario is "it could be stolen, but it can't be proven where it was stolen from".
;)
Is it a KTM 640 LC by any chance :grin:
Quote from: terry950sm on April 16, 2015, 02:24:06 PM
Is it a KTM 640 LC by any chance :grin:
hahah no but I was waiting for someone to crack that , I should really go and look at that engine shouldn't I as well I don't think I did ,
its a 2008 ducati 1098
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 02:22:20 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 02:17:37 PM
I was hoping someone could back up my logic of if it cant be proved to be stolen "it isn't" etc
I'm not sure I'd call that logic. The only logic that could fit this scenario is "it could be stolen, but it can't be proven where it was stolen from".
;)
I agree but if the engine number is removed someone could have just decided to remove it (I know how that sounds) but with nothing to go on except the fact its removed its just speculation (regardless that I told her its blatantly a stolen engine (or a write off)
You know the score, you're not daft. You already know how this could look if it all goes horribly wrong. You don't need us to state the obvious for you. Ultimately it's her choice, she has a bike of suspect origin that one day "could" be proven to be part of a theft or scam and she could risk losing the bike. She could also put 50,000mile on it without any fuss and never have an issue.
No amount of speculation about the engine number or whether it's wise to attach a fake plate to the engine is going to give her any peace of mind that it won't ever get taken away from her. It's unlikely someone would be able to link that engine to a theft, BUT, she needs to just be at peace that it's a risk she has to accept. Or, she flogs it on. But if she does that I'd suggest she thinks very carefully before neglecting to mention the potential origin of the engine. I know it's up to the buyer to check stuff, but personally I couldn't flog a bike on that I knew had potential risks associated with it.
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 02:35:52 PM
You know the score, you're not daft. You already know how this could look if it all goes horribly wrong. You don't need us to state the obvious for you. Ultimately it's her choice, she has a bike of suspect origin that one day "could" be proven to be part of a theft or scam and she could risk losing the bike. She could also put 50,000mile on it without any fuss and never have an issue.
No amount of speculation about the engine number or whether it's wise to attach a fake plate to the engine is going to give her any peace of mind that it won't ever get taken away from her. It's unlikely someone would be able to link that engine to a theft, BUT, she needs to just be at peace that it's a risk she has to accept. Or, she flogs it on. But if she does that I'd suggest she thinks very carefully before neglecting to mention the potential origin of the engine. I know it's up to the buyer to check stuff, but personally I couldn't flog a bike on that I knew had potential risks associated with it.
I may possible say to her to get some colour matched paint so its not so obvious ,I couldn't sell it without mentioning it and knowing the bikes safe either , just wondered about legal as I imagined it would be the same as, i.e house hold property if something cant be proven to be stolen it must be returned to "the owner" etc
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 02:28:55 PM
its a 2008 ducati 1098
Its cheap and has no engine number for a reason!
Quote from: Jonesy on April 16, 2015, 03:04:56 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 02:28:55 PM
its a 2008 ducati 1098
Its cheap and has no engine number for a reason!
wasn't cheap cheap and wasn't from gumtree either
Probably a lot of hassle and maybe not worth the aggravation, but there are experts out there who can recover ground off engine numbers by using a special acid (similar to that used by the Police in forensic vehicle examinations) which may at least provide some peace of mind, or at least will allow a further check to be done as to its original identity.
As to cost, I have no idea, just a random alternative potential option.
It may also make it easier to move on if the original engine number is known.
IIRC from a little while ago, where Kent police were checking lots of bikes (mainly at trackdays, but that to do with large numbers in a small location) for VINs and engine numbers etc. They gave the responsability for the individual to prove that any bike that had either mismatched or missing numbers, had done so legally, otherwise the issued a confiscation order and impounded anything that couldn't be proved.
In short .... if you can't prove a legal reason for having mismatched or missing numbers, then you lose the bike, and become part of an investigation into bike theft and ringing.
One more thing, there is no need to tamper with an engine number at all whatsoever. Every block has a number stamped from the factory, so even if it's had a legitimate engine change there should be a number present. The only time a number gets removed from the block is when someone is trying to alter it's identity illegally.
Finally, if she sells up and is asked (even causally) any questions that relate to the engine and bike in any way, she has to by law be truthful about the lack of numbers.
Quote from: T.C on April 16, 2015, 03:58:47 PM
Probably a lot of hassle and maybe not worth the aggravation, but there are experts out there who can recover ground off engine numbers by using a special acid (similar to that used by the Police in forensic vehicle examinations) which may at least provide some peace of mind, or at least will allow a further check to be done as to its original identity.
As to cost, I have no idea, just a random alternative potential option.
It may also make it easier to move on if the original engine number is known.
I was thinking about that but its really had a lot taken off it I doubt anything could be recovered if im honest
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
its really had a lot taken off it I doubt anything could be recovered if im honest
Seems legit.
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 04:19:36 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
its really had a lot taken off it I doubt anything could be recovered if im honest
Seems legit.
I mean grounded off its not lightly done I didn't mean parts...
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 04:30:46 PM
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 04:19:36 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
its really had a lot taken off it I doubt anything could be recovered if im honest
Seems legit.
I mean grounded off its not lightly done I didn't mean parts...
That's what I was referring to. Whoever ground it off made damn sure noone could ever find out the original number....
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
I was thinking about that but its really had a lot taken off it I doubt anything could be recovered if im honest
It is quite surprising how deep engine numbers are punched into the engine casings. I have seen many where I thought it would be unrecoverable, but surprisingly they have managed to bring it up.
It might also mitigate any awkward questions asked. Few people check engine numbers when buying secondhand, and even then if it has been a legitimate engine change the numbers may not match as people often forget or don't bother to get the V5 amended.
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 04:32:02 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 04:30:46 PM
Quote from: PJ on April 16, 2015, 04:19:36 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
its really had a lot taken off it I doubt anything could be recovered if im honest
Seems legit.
I mean grounded off its not lightly done I didn't mean parts...
That's what I was referring to. Whoever ground it off made damn sure noone could ever find out the original number....
ah right , yeah im inclinded to agree but to be fair if your going to remove them in the first place your want to do a proper job of it I guess :undecided:
Quote from: T.C on April 16, 2015, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
I was thinking about that but its really had a lot taken off it I doubt anything could be recovered if im honest
It is quite surprising how deep engine numbers are punched into the engine casings. I have seen many where I thought it would be unrecoverable, but surprisingly they have managed to bring it up.
It might also mitigate any awkward questions asked. Few people check engine numbers when buying secondhand, and even then if it has been a legitimate engine change the numbers may not match as people often forget or don't bother to get the V5 amended.
ill look into it t.c but to me it looks completely smooth
When you say engine number ground off are you sure ?
If the motor has had the cases replaced (gearbox failure, output shaft failure etc) a new motor will come as a blank with only the factory case grinding on it where a production engine number would usually be stamped. Blank cases are never stamped fwiw.
Quote from: WizzBang on April 16, 2015, 04:05:36 PM
IIRC from a little while ago, where Kent police were checking lots of bikes (mainly at trackdays, but that to do with large numbers in a small location) for VINs and engine numbers etc. They gave the responsability for the individual to prove that any bike that had either mismatched or missing numbers, had done so legally, otherwise the issued a confiscation order and impounded anything that couldn't be proved.
In short .... if you can't prove a legal reason for having mismatched or missing numbers, then you lose the bike, and become part of an investigation into bike theft and ringing.
One more thing, there is no need to tamper with an engine number at all whatsoever. Every block has a number stamped from the factory, so even if it's had a legitimate engine change there should be a number present. The only time a number gets removed from the block is when someone is trying to alter it's identity illegally.
Finally, if she sells up and is asked (even causally) any questions that relate to the engine and bike in any way, she has to by law be truthful about the lack of numbers.
There you have it.
I don't see any good reason why a nearly new bike like that has had the engine number ground off. If the rest of the bike is legit then I can only imagine it's a dodgy engine from a nicked bike (how it got there or why it's there actually seems pretty irrelevant if Neil is right.... the fact you don't know is the problem).
Let's say it's 95% likely that the engine is dodgy and, if it is, the bike will be seized if spotted by the authorities.
Your friends fear is that the bike will be seized.
There is no point in masking the number. Anyone that is capable of seizing it will know as soon as they see it. And then you're in the sh1t for fraud.
There is a 95% chance that if you do further investigation then you'll find out for certain it's dodgy. Then you're in the sh1t for keeping it quiet (or increasing your likelihood of getting found out). You're inviting the thing you fear onto your doorstep.
If your main concern is to avoid having the bike seized, your only option is to keep absolutely quiet and use / sell the bike as you found it and forget you ever noticed the number. this option requires you to ignore your morals and may land you in the sh1t with plod.
If you want to take the more moral / legally safer stance then you can either a) pay for an investigation b) go to the authorities or c) go back to the seller (with or without the authorities) and make it their problem again. I'd suggest all of the moral options come at a potentially increased financial risk.
A middle ground would be to sell the bike on but be completely straight about the numbers - but you're going to lose out financially to the person who knows the engine if probably dodgy and legally, selling it on knowing it was probably dodgy there may be comeuppance. But at least you're not selling on a ringer without the buyer knowing what they are getting into.
I don't see any option where you will get rid of both the financial and the moral / legal risk. Watching you try is quite frustrating. I'd tell your friend she can choose one or the other.
Quote from: mc101 on April 16, 2015, 05:07:35 PM
When you say engine number ground off are you sure ?
If the motor has had the cases replaced (gearbox failure, output shaft failure etc) a new motor will come as a blank with only the factory case grinding on it where a production engine number would usually be stamped. Blank cases are never stamped fwiw.
uummmmmm..... or that :lipsrsealed:
Quote from: mc101 on April 16, 2015, 05:07:35 PM
When you say engine number ground off are you sure ?
If the motor has had the cases replaced (gearbox failure, output shaft failure etc) a new motor will come as a blank with only the factory case grinding on it where a production engine number would usually be stamped. Blank cases are never stamped fwiw.
id say so its just a super shiny bit
Quote from: Gilby104 on April 16, 2015, 05:10:30 PM
Quote from: WizzBang on April 16, 2015, 04:05:36 PM
IIRC from a little while ago, where Kent police were checking lots of bikes (mainly at trackdays, but that to do with large numbers in a small location) for VINs and engine numbers etc. They gave the responsability for the individual to prove that any bike that had either mismatched or missing numbers, had done so legally, otherwise the issued a confiscation order and impounded anything that couldn't be proved.
In short .... if you can't prove a legal reason for having mismatched or missing numbers, then you lose the bike, and become part of an investigation into bike theft and ringing.
One more thing, there is no need to tamper with an engine number at all whatsoever. Every block has a number stamped from the factory, so even if it's had a legitimate engine change there should be a number present. The only time a number gets removed from the block is when someone is trying to alter it's identity illegally.
Finally, if she sells up and is asked (even causally) any questions that relate to the engine and bike in any way, she has to by law be truthful about the lack of numbers.
There you have it.
I don't see any good reason why a nearly new bike like that has had the engine number ground off. If the rest of the bike is legit then I can only imagine it's a dodgy engine from a nicked bike (how it got there or why it's there actually seems pretty irrelevant if Neil is right.... the fact you don't know is the problem).
Let's say it's 95% likely that the engine is dodgy and, if it is, the bike will be seized if spotted by the authorities.
Your friends fear is that the bike will be seized.
There is no point in masking the number. Anyone that is capable of seizing it will know as soon as they see it. And then you're in the sh1t for fraud.
There is a 95% chance that if you do further investigation then you'll find out for certain it's dodgy. Then you're in the sh1t for keeping it quiet (or increasing your likelihood of getting found out). You're inviting the thing you fear onto your doorstep.
If your main concern is to avoid having the bike seized, your only option is to keep absolutely quiet and use / sell the bike as you found it and forget you ever noticed the number. this option requires you to ignore your morals and may land you in the sh1t with plod.
If you want to take the more moral / legally safer stance then you can either a) pay for an investigation b) go to the authorities or c) go back to the seller (with or without the authorities) and make it their problem again. I'd suggest all of the moral options come at a potentially increased financial risk.
A middle ground would be to sell the bike on but be completely straight about the numbers - but you're going to lose out financially to the person who knows the engine if probably dodgy and legally, selling it on knowing it was probably dodgy there may be comeuppance. But at least you're not selling on a ringer without the buyer knowing what they are getting into.
I don't see any option where you will get rid of both the financial and the moral / legal risk. Watching you try is quite frustrating. I'd tell your friend she can choose one or the other.
ill let her know , i didn't think that was the case as per this a while back,
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2009/january/jan0809-thieves-given-back-stolen-bikes/
Do you, or anyone you know, ever do anything that doesn't involve buying hookey gear??!
:BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:
Quote from: Millhouse on April 16, 2015, 08:45:13 PM
Do you, or anyone you know, ever do anything that doesn't involve buying hookey gear??!
:BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead:
Nothing hooky about my bikes thank you very much! :cool:
Its probably of no use now but i always check the vin/engine number against a V5 before i buy a vehicle after being stung on an Astra SRI when i was a boy.
Plod need reasonable grounds to suspect an item is stolen. If they do, its down to the owner to provide evidence to prove it isnt stolen. The engine has no number.....anyone with half a brain knows there is really only 1 reason why its not there. I know she didnt know about the lack of numbers when she brought it but id say she would struggle to convince a copper unless she has a great rack :snorting:
If any half decent copper stops her on it theres a chance she will get nicked for handling stolen goods and have the bike seized.
Covering it up/altering it shows some form of intent so i would be really careful.
I love you carbon. Your post always bring a smile to my face. What would this place be without you. :cool:
Quote from: terry950sm on April 17, 2015, 10:58:08 AM
I love you carbon. Your post always bring a smile to my face. What would this place be without you. :cool:
Your very welcome,exactly!!! :tongue:
You're the new PJ
:)
Quote from: PJ on April 17, 2015, 01:56:25 PM
You're the new PJ
:)
without the veet comments
She's taking it to a ducati main dealer tomorrow just to make sure its not a replacement case
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 17, 2015, 03:06:53 PM
She's taking it to a ducati main dealer tomorrow just to make sure its not a replacement case
WHY?.... never mind..... good idea!
Quote from: Gilby104 on April 17, 2015, 04:54:23 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 17, 2015, 03:06:53 PM
She's taking it to a ducati main dealer tomorrow just to make sure its not a replacement case
WHY?.... never mind..... good idea!
she sent them a photo and they said its not been grounded (wasn't my idea) they have a replacement in stock and are going to compare it to be certain
Quote from: T.C on April 16, 2015, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 16, 2015, 04:08:57 PM
I was thinking about that but its really had a lot taken off it I doubt anything could be recovered if im honest
It is quite surprising how deep engine numbers are punched into the engine casings. I have seen many where I thought it would be unrecoverable, but surprisingly they have managed to bring it up.
It might also mitigate any awkward questions asked. Few people check engine numbers when buying secondhand, and even then if it has been a legitimate engine change the numbers may not match as people often forget or don't bother to get the V5 amended.
This - the police can recover the original numbers using a fairly simple process but will only usually do it when you report the engine as possibly stolen. If it is then you could lose the engine or even the bike.
Buying a bike with altered numbers is one thing if you don't know what fonts etc to look for but buying a bike without any engine numbers is asking for trouble.
Ive just looked at the ktm.............
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 17, 2015, 06:12:03 PM
Ive just looked at the ktm.............
oh do tell :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn:
Quote from: Green_Ninja on April 17, 2015, 07:39:45 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 17, 2015, 06:12:03 PM
Ive just looked at the ktm.............
oh do tell :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn:
Well there seems to be something missing....
Quote from: Green_Ninja on April 17, 2015, 08:54:17 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 17, 2015, 07:41:34 PM
Quote from: Green_Ninja on April 17, 2015, 07:39:45 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 17, 2015, 06:12:03 PM
Ive just looked at the ktm.............
oh do tell :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn: :azn:
Possibly.... I dont think its ground , think it may be a replacement as its a slightly different colour to the other half ill post a photo tomorrow
Well there seems to be something missing....
like an engine number?????? ;)
i shall refer you to my previous comment...
Turns out her bike is not dodgy had a replacement case under warrenty
Well that's great news! Will they stamp it up to avoid any future problems?
I thought engine numbers were on the block, not on the casings.
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/superbikes/8903-996-identification-pict3053b.jpg
Quote from: Chojin on April 20, 2015, 06:22:19 PM
Well that's great news! Will they stamp it up to avoid any future problems?
A legit 1098 for £4700 with 9000 miles yeah id say , they did it free of charge which was very nice of them , I'm going to take my ktm onto my local ktm dealer and see if they can dig up any history on the ktm after the bollocks story the previous owner told me about a previous owner being told by the dvla to ground the engine numbers off the replacement casing as he couldn't afford to update it with the dvla I'm not holding out much hope
Quote from: terry950sm on April 20, 2015, 06:26:39 PM
I thought engine numbers were on the block, not on the casings.
http://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/superbikes/8903-996-identification-pict3053b.jpg
Id agree never seen an engine number stamped on a casing before!
I'll take a photo when I see it but regardless the part its on was replaced and its stamped now , I seriously doubt ill be as lucky with the ktm
Took the ktm in this morning couldn't find anything on warrenty replacements or simmiler but he took a look at it and immediately said its a blank and not been ground and showed me a 690 case for comparison (well I think it was a 690) and the only difference is mines dirtier!!!
However they wont stamp it........ :(
It doesn't make sense stamping the engine case? Nick a motor, swap the engine case over.....seems a bit too easy for the crims. Id have thought the manufactures would make it far harder!
How lucky is that though, buying two really cheap bikes that have had replacement cases. What are the odds :rolleyes:
Only one of them are mine , mine could still have a stolen engine or cover but its a blank , to be fair the ktm wasn't that cheap
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 21, 2015, 12:34:30 PM
to be fair the ktm wasn't that cheap
So why did you buy it?
I was under the impression from your post, that you wanted a cheap supermoto. :shocked:
Quote from: terry950sm on April 21, 2015, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 21, 2015, 12:34:30 PM
to be fair the ktm wasn't that cheap
So why did you buy it?
I was under the impression from your post, that you wanted a cheap supermoto. :shocked:
don't Terry you'll just end up with a headache ;)
Quote from: terry950sm on April 21, 2015, 12:47:53 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 21, 2015, 12:34:30 PM
to be fair the ktm wasn't that cheap
So why did you buy it?
I was under the impression from your post, that you wanted a cheap supermoto. :shocked:
Urregh you know what I ment but yet I'm forced to say it , it wasn't a great deal cheaper than near identical bikes and with the work it needed its put it bang on what I originally expected to pay
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 21, 2015, 10:20:13 AM
Took the ktm in this morning couldn't find anything on warrenty replacements or simmiler but he took a look at it and immediately said its a blank and not been ground and showed me a 690 case for comparison (well I think it was a 690) and the only difference is mines dirtier!!!
So are you saying you couldnt ground a number off and make it look blank? surely a series of finer and finer graded of paper, grinding wheel etc? no...?
Remind me to never reply to a 'for sale' post of yours. :shocked:
Quote from: Jonesy on April 21, 2015, 03:42:36 PM
Quote from: Carbon_ZX6R on April 21, 2015, 10:20:13 AM
Took the ktm in this morning couldn't find anything on warrenty replacements or simmiler but he took a look at it and immediately said its a blank and not been ground and showed me a 690 case for comparison (well I think it was a 690) and the only difference is mines dirtier!!!
So are you saying you couldnt ground a number off and make it look blank? surely a series of finer and
finer graded of paper, grinding wheel etc? no...?
Remind me to never reply to a 'for sale' post of yours. :shocked:
That is exactly what I thought!