grounded engine numbers legallity?

[PJ]

I can only see one reason to stamp the number on illegally, to dupe anyone looking at it into thinking it's genuine. And personally that's a shit storm I'd stay out of.

[Carbon_ZX6R]

I can only see one reason to stamp the number on illegally, to dupe anyone looking at it into thinking it's genuine. And personally that's a shit storm I'd stay out of.

I think shes just worried about e.g police routine stop etc as nobody seems to know the legal procedure

[PJ]

I can only see one reason to stamp the number on illegally, to dupe anyone looking at it into thinking it's genuine. And personally that's a shit storm I'd stay out of.

I think shes just worried about e.g police routine stop etc as nobody seems to know the legal procedure

She'll be in more shit if she's unlucky enough to get a Plod who DOES know his stuff. All the batting of eyelashes won't save her then.

And to be fair, Plod stopping you at the side of the road for something minor doesn't usually end up with checking of VIN and engine numbers, unless they have a reason to. And if they do they usually have guys trained in this kind of thing who will spot a fake engine number a mile away. I'd like to see her explain her genuine intentions then!

[Carbon_ZX6R]

I can only see one reason to stamp the number on illegally, to dupe anyone looking at it into thinking it's genuine. And personally that's a shit storm I'd stay out of.

I think shes just worried about e.g police routine stop etc as nobody seems to know the legal procedure

She'll be in more shit if she's unlucky enough to get a Plod who DOES know his stuff. All the batting of eyelashes won't save her then.

And to be fair, Plod stopping you at the side of the road for something minor doesn't usually end up with checking of VIN and engine numbers, unless they have a reason to. And if they do they usually have guys trained in this kind of thing who will spot a fake engine number a mile away. I'd like to see her explain her genuine intentions then!

agreed I was hoping someone could back up my logic of if it cant be proved to be stolen "it isn't" etc

[PJ]

I was hoping someone could back up my logic of if it cant be proved to be stolen "it isn't" etc

I'm not sure I'd call that logic. The only logic that could fit this scenario is "it could be stolen, but it can't be proven where it was stolen from".

[terry950sm]

Is it a KTM 640 LC by any chance 

[Carbon_ZX6R]

Is it a KTM 640 LC by any chance 

hahah no but I was waiting for someone to crack that , I should really go and look at that engine shouldn't I as well I don't think I did ,

its a 2008 ducati 1098

[Carbon_ZX6R]

I was hoping someone could back up my logic of if it cant be proved to be stolen "it isn't" etc

I'm not sure I'd call that logic. The only logic that could fit this scenario is "it could be stolen, but it can't be proven where it was stolen from".

I agree but if the engine number is removed someone could have just decided to remove it (I know how that sounds) but with nothing to go on except the fact its removed its just speculation (regardless that I told her its blatantly a stolen engine (or a write off)

[PJ]

You know the score, you're not daft. You already know how this could look if it all goes horribly wrong. You don't need us to state the obvious for you. Ultimately it's her choice, she has a bike of suspect origin that one day "could" be proven to be part of a theft or scam and she could risk losing the bike. She could also put 50,000mile on it without any fuss and never have an issue.

No amount of speculation about the engine number or whether it's wise to attach a fake plate to the engine is going to give her any peace of mind that it won't ever get taken away from her. It's unlikely someone would be able to link that engine to a theft, BUT, she needs to just be at peace that it's a risk she has to accept. Or, she flogs it on. But if she does that I'd suggest she thinks very carefully before neglecting to mention the potential origin of the engine. I know it's up to the buyer to check stuff, but personally I couldn't flog a bike on that I knew had potential risks associated with it.

[Carbon_ZX6R]

You know the score, you're not daft. You already know how this could look if it all goes horribly wrong. You don't need us to state the obvious for you. Ultimately it's her choice, she has a bike of suspect origin that one day "could" be proven to be part of a theft or scam and she could risk losing the bike. She could also put 50,000mile on it without any fuss and never have an issue.

No amount of speculation about the engine number or whether it's wise to attach a fake plate to the engine is going to give her any peace of mind that it won't ever get taken away from her. It's unlikely someone would be able to link that engine to a theft, BUT, she needs to just be at peace that it's a risk she has to accept. Or, she flogs it on. But if she does that I'd suggest she thinks very carefully before neglecting to mention the potential origin of the engine. I know it's up to the buyer to check stuff, but personally I couldn't flog a bike on that I knew had potential risks associated with it.

I may possible say to her to get some colour matched paint so its not so obvious ,I couldn't sell it without mentioning it and knowing the bikes safe either , just wondered about legal as I imagined it would be the same as, i.e house hold property if something cant be proven to be stolen it must be returned to "the owner" etc

[Jonesy]

its a 2008 ducati 1098

Its cheap and has no engine number for a reason!

[Carbon_ZX6R]

its a 2008 ducati 1098

Its cheap and has no engine number for a reason!

wasn't cheap cheap and wasn't from gumtree either

[T.C]

Probably a lot of hassle and maybe not worth the aggravation, but there are experts out there who can recover ground off engine numbers by using a special acid (similar to that used by the Police in forensic vehicle examinations) which may at least provide some peace of mind, or at least will allow a further check to be done as to its original identity.

As to cost, I have no idea, just a random alternative potential option.

It may also make it easier to move on if the original engine number is known.

[WizzBang]

IIRC from a little while ago, where Kent police were checking lots of bikes (mainly at trackdays, but that to do with large numbers in a small location) for VINs and engine numbers etc.  They gave the responsability for the individual to prove that any bike that had either mismatched or missing numbers, had done so legally, otherwise the issued a confiscation order and impounded anything that couldn't be proved.

In short .... if you can't prove a legal reason for having mismatched or missing numbers, then you lose the bike, and become part of an investigation into bike theft and ringing.

One more thing, there is no need to tamper with an engine number at all whatsoever.  Every block has a number stamped from the factory, so even if it's had a legitimate engine change there should be a number present.  The only time a number gets removed from the block is when someone is trying to alter it's identity illegally.

Finally, if she sells up and is asked (even causally) any questions that relate to the engine and bike in any way, she has to by law be truthful about the lack of numbers.

[Carbon_ZX6R]

Probably a lot of hassle and maybe not worth the aggravation, but there are experts out there who can recover ground off engine numbers by using a special acid (similar to that used by the Police in forensic vehicle examinations) which may at least provide some peace of mind, or at least will allow a further check to be done as to its original identity.

As to cost, I have no idea, just a random alternative potential option.

It may also make it easier to move on if the original engine number is known.

I was thinking about that but its really had a lot taken off it I doubt anything could be recovered if im honest