Argh, someone's crashed into the back of me at a roundabout just now.
Bike still running but looks like a few hundred quid's worth of damage...
Could no doubt be bodged for less, but I don't want to do that, because it's only a year old and was otherwise pristine.
Any words of advice on dos and don'ts in this situation?
My first instinct is to take it to my servicing Triumph dealer for an assessment, and avoid the third party repair company that my insurance company seem to want to come and take it to Windsor.
Any reason why I should not follow that course of action?
Maybe tell your insurance company that it will invalidate your warranty if anyone else touches it and that you MUST take it to your dealer...just in case they try to insist?
Not been in that situation myself fortunately, so can't give any real advice.
What a pain for you :(
:( arse
that is shit
no advice to offer sorry
ah what a nightmare, sorry to hear it. There is something about this time of year clearly.
All my dealings with Insurance companies etc have been much better when I assume nothing and get everything in writing. In your case, would it be worth writing to them and setting out your preferences and asking them whether their preference is a requirement and what the ramifications are for you if you take it somewhere else. Would be useful to find out what their position is in full before you commit to your course of action?
hope it gets sorted chap.
Nat's warranty call is a great one as I assume it's you new Tiger?
Why are your insurance involved from that point of view? If you were the first one hit your insurance should be fighting to get everything YOU want with regard to the repairs from the dozy twat who hit you and their insurance company.
Best of luck. I hope it's cut and dried.
Quote from: tucola on April 26, 2016, 10:17:02 AM
Any words of advice on dos and don'ts in this situation?
My first instinct is to take it to my servicing Triumph dealer for an assessment, and avoid the third party repair company that my insurance company seem to want to come and take it to Windsor.
Any reason why I should not follow that course of action?
Being rear ended is strict liability, so other driver will be held liable.
Insurance companies by law can no longer force anyone to use the in house repairers. You want to use your own dealer, you are emtitled to do that, remember you are claiming off the third party anyway, and even they cannot insist that you use their repair centres.
If you want an independent to deal with the claims aspect, I can put you in touch with someone who can assist you and also arrange a loan bike whilst yours is beng assessed and/or repaired.
Cheers Moz - yeh, it's the new Tiger.
And thanks T.C., I may just take you up on that...
I went ahead and got the bike to the local dealer and they are going to let me have an estimate to fix it and I guess I'll see what it is and take it from there.
I suspect that the bloke who hit me thinks it was a relatively low speed bump and he's going to be shocked to learn that it's caused the hundreds of pounds worth of damage that I fear that it will have done by the time you've replaced all the bits of plastic that are cracked.
My insurance company is telling me that the quickest way to deal with this is to claim on my fully comp. policy, pay the excess and then hope that they can recover it from the other side, in which case my excess will be refunded. Does that sound right or is there a risk that they'll decide they can't be arsed and call it 50/50 (especially if it turns out the other guy is insured by them as well)?
I guess these are decisions that can await the quote from the dealer...
A hire bike would be useful, since it's my daily transport to work, but I'm instinctively reluctant to go down that route and inflate the cost of the claim potentially by more than the cost of the repairs themselves: I guess I could use the pushbike to the station and the train for a while (although that's £23/day versus £18 every three days in petrol).
Even if they do recover and excess returned...you will have a Non Fault claim against you and will pay at renewal...the biggest scam in the insurance industry...and they get away with it.
As I said, being rear ended is called strict liability, so they cannot go 50/50 regardless of whether you are both insured by the same firm or not.
There are a some firms who can hire a bike who do not tie you down to a personal finance agreement and are approved by the insurers and the FCA.
What a knightmare, you shouldn't end up out of pocket for the loss of your bike because of some numpty, if you don't go hire bike and I suggest you do then make sure you keep all receipts for costs incurred as they will form part of the claim too. TC knows his onions so stick with his advice
OK, I've emailed the dude and asked for his insurance details.
Any crap and I'm instructing lawyers!
Quote from: tucola on April 27, 2016, 09:17:14 PM
OK, I've emailed the dude and asked for his insurance details.
Any crap and I'm instructing lawyers!
He's legally obligated to give you those details...if he refuses it becomes a police matter not a lawyer
tucola..
my sprint 1050 is currently gathering dust, but mot'd and ready to rock if you need to borrow it for however long..
Quote from: Alzo on April 27, 2016, 09:51:49 PM
Quote from: tucola on April 27, 2016, 09:17:14 PM
OK, I've emailed the dude and asked for his insurance details.
Any crap and I'm instructing lawyers!
He's legally obligated to give you those details...if he refuses it becomes a police matter not a lawyer
No he isn't. :rolleyes:
Third party is only obliged to provide insurance details in crashes where it is known that there has been an injury. In damage only crashes, they are only required to provide
Name and address of the driver
Name and address of the owner (company car for example)
Registration mark
In this case, because there is no injury, if you find a solicitor that you can instruct outside of legal expenses appointed to deal with a damage only, please let me know because unless they are financed by the insurers or the value of the claim is under £5,000 you cannot claim legal costs.
That is why I mentioned that I have someone who could assist.
Quote from: T.C on April 28, 2016, 09:00:05 AM
Quote from: Alzo on April 27, 2016, 09:51:49 PM
Quote from: tucola on April 27, 2016, 09:17:14 PM
OK, I've emailed the dude and asked for his insurance details.
Any crap and I'm instructing lawyers!
He's legally obligated to give you those details...if he refuses it becomes a police matter not a lawyer
No he isn't. :rolleyes:
Third party is only obliged to provide insurance details in crashes where it is known that there has been an injury. In damage only crashes, they are only required to provide
Name and address of the driver
Name and address of the owner (company car for example)
Registration mark
In this case, because there is no injury, if you find a solicitor that you can instruct outside of legal expenses appointed to deal with a damage only, please let me know because unless they are financed by the insurers or the value of the claim is under £5,000 you cannot claim legal costs.
That is why I mentioned that I have someone who could assist.
I only speak from my experience...I was taken off at a Roundabout and the lad refused to give details...the Police visited him later that day and told him he was legally obliged to pass on details..."so keep your rolly eyes I know everything attitude" and accept that I was only trying to pass on my experience to assist...perhaps Scottish law differs...
Easy tiger, TC knows his accident onions.
Must say I thought you had to give insurance details, if not at the time then at some point.
No idea who my insurer is.
Quote from: Alzo on April 28, 2016, 09:12:49 AM
]I only speak from my experience...I was taken off at a Roundabout and the lad refused to give details...the Police visited him later that day and told him he was legally obliged to pass on details..."so keep your rolly eyes I know everything attitude" and accept that I was only trying to pass on my experience to assist...perhaps Scottish law differs...
I rolled eyes because this has been covered many times before. You made a statement of fact which was/is inaccurate. And if I did know everything, I would be making a dam sight more money that I do.
You are legally obliged to pass on names and addresses and registration numbers, (which may ne what they are referring to) but you are not legally required to give insurance details unless there is injury, and even then, if you gave them to a bystander who offered to take them to the Hospital (as an example) and even though you may not know the person, the law will have been complied with.
In the case of injury you are obliged to provide your insurance details to any person with reasonable grounds to so require those details, otherwise the crash must be reported as soon as practicable but in any case within 24 hours.
In the case of damage only crashes, a letter of claim gets sent to the third party who should then pass it onto their insurers. If they don't then they become personally liable and will end up with a CCJ or worse.
The rules are the same in Scotland
Taken from Citizens advice law page:
In the case of a damage-only accident, the driver must give insurance details to anyone who may wish to make a claim against them.
In all accidents, drivers should inform their own insurance company.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/transport/driving-and-parking/driving/traffic-accidents/
Quotemy sprint 1050 is currently gathering dust, but mot'd and ready to rock if you need to borrow it for however long..
An extremely generous offer. Thanks dude! I'll see where we get to this week but might well consider taking you up on this - will give you a shout.
QuoteIn this case, because there is no injury, if you find a solicitor that you can instruct outside of legal expenses appointed to deal with a damage only, please let me know because unless they are financed by the insurers or the value of the claim is under £5,000 you cannot claim legal costs.
That is why I mentioned that I have someone who could assist.
Likewise, the offer was much appreciated.
Given that there's no significant injuries and the case seems pretty clear-cut, my instinct was to avoid going straight to lawyers and incurring those legal costs, and give this guy the chance to sort it sensibly and quickly.
But if that doesn't work out, you'll be the first person I'll call.
Quote from: Alzo on April 28, 2016, 10:15:04 AM
Taken from Citizens advice law page:
In the case of a damage-only accident, the driver must give insurance details to anyone who may wish to make a claim against them.
In all accidents, drivers should inform their own insurance company.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/transport/driving-and-parking/driving/traffic-accidents/
Taken from the very site you posted the link to...
If any personal injury is caused to another person, the driver must also produce a valid insurance certificate if asked to do so by a police officer, injured person, or anyone else directly or indirectly involved in the accident. If the insurance certificate is asked for, but not produced at the time, the accident must be reported to a police station as soon as practicable, or in any case within 24 hours, and the insurance certificate must be taken to a police station within seven days of the accident. However if the driver is asked at the time of the accident to produce insurance details and does so, there is no further obligation to report the accident to the police, as long as they have complied with the duties described above.They are right in that advice
In respect of this comment
In the case of a damage-only accident, the driver must give insurance details to anyone who may wish to make a claim against them.They are wrong. I have actually written to them and advised them. They have acknowledged me and have apologised for giving inaccurate information.
There has never been a requirement in law to produce insurance documents in damage only crashes, only Injury.
But I am happy to contest your argument if you so wish.... ;)
Out of interest T.C is the insurance details vs personal details thing a case of semantics? i.e. if someone is required to give their personal details is it not a foregone conclusion that you your insurer will be able to find out if, where and how the vehicle is insured?
Just found it
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170
Section 170
(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of [F4a motor vehicle] does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—
(a) to a constable, or
(b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,
the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.
This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.
(6)To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act
Section 170 (1) (a) relates to injury caused and production of insurance. It is not required for damage nly
So please continue to fight your corner :azn:
I just noticed a big fookin' bruise has come up on my leg that I hadn't even noticed bashing in the heat of the moment - this is not a joke - I'm serious!
So I guess this means that the fooker has to give me his insurance details in any event!
Quote from: Gilby104 on April 28, 2016, 02:01:27 PM
Out of interest T.C is the insurance details vs personal details thing a case of semantics? i.e. if someone is required to give their personal details is it not a foregone conclusion that you your insurer will be able to find out if, where and how the vehicle is insured?
Not really semantics. A company car or hire car could be involved (look at the issues that often arise with the delivery of an NIP), many drivers (myself included) do not carry insurance certificates with them, drivers are not always named on the policy.
So by giving driver and owner details does not always guarantee they are going to produce insurance details, in the same vein there are riders who sell their bikes, new owner does not bother to insure, previous owner does not cancel said policy, new owner has a crash, old owner becomes liable on their policy.
Gilby, problem with relying on my own insurance company to be able to get the other side's insurance details is that my insurance company will only do anything at all if I claim on my own policy, which I'm not sure I want to do at the moment. So until I do something, nothing happens.
But anyway, we're actually getting side-tracked here: - the other guy happily gave me his insurance details by email this morning when I asked him for them, although he has asked me to give him a quote for the damage before we decide whether to get them involved or whether he'd rather deal with the matter direct to avoid having to make a claim on his policy.
I suspect it's going to be the usual situation that he is currently labouring under the misapprehension that it's going to be £40 to a panel beater, and the insurers will end up being involved pretty quick once we see how many expensive bits of plastic are going to need replacing...
Quote from: tucola on April 28, 2016, 02:07:18 PM
I just noticed a big fookin' bruise has come up on my leg that I hadn't even noticed bashing in the heat of the moment - this is not a joke - I'm serious!
So I guess this means that the fooker has to give me his insurance details in any event!
Yes it is classified as an injury, and so insurance details are required to be produced to anyone with reasonable requirements to so require those details. If the other side does not produce them, then it has to be produced to a Constable as soon as practicable but in any case within 24 hours.
Because you were not injured at the time, then to prove an offence of failing to stop and report for failing to produce their insurance is unlikely to succeed unless of course they failed to provide the other details required. As far as making a personal injury claim is concerned, at the moment it would fall below the £1,000 threshold of being able to claim back legal costs or get funding under a CFA, but if issues persist for a week of so, then it would put you in reach of a fast rack claim.
Quotein the same vein there are riders who sell their bikes, new owner does not bother to insure, previous owner does not cancel said policy, new owner has a crash, old owner becomes liable on their policy
I've heard this before, and it sounds legally flawed to me.
Andrew Dalton of White Dalton wrote about it in Bike Magazine and I email him to query it, but he never responded.
Sounds like an urban myth...
In fact, haven't we been over this ground on here before?
QuoteAs far as making a personal injury claim is concerned,
Nah, fook that, I've had worse playing rugby - just want to get this sorted quickly, fairly, without taking the piss or making anyone's premiums go up unnecessarily.
http://www.mcnninjas.com/smf/index.php?topic=1958.msg22160#msg22160 (http://www.mcnninjas.com/smf/index.php?topic=1958.msg22160#msg22160)
Knew we'd been over the insurance on vehicle sale thing before...
Quote from: tucola on April 28, 2016, 02:18:04 PM
Quote
Sounds like an urban myth...
Please yourself. Makes me wonder why you posted up asking for any advice in the first place?
Clearly you don't need it or want it.
QuotePlease yourself. Makes me wonder why you posted up asking for any advice in the first place?
Clearly you don't need it or want it.
On the contrary, I'm unfamiliar with the best way to play things after an accident and am rapidly trying to learn, with advice appreciated. My instinct would have been to go through my insurers, but I'm discovering that that may not be the best way forward at all.
The issue about possible claims after you have sold a bike was unrelated to my original enquiry, something that we had discussed on here before (in a civil way, I thought, and once again in the interests of sharing and developing knowledge) and so I simply mentioned that, without intention to offend.
Quote from: T.C on April 28, 2016, 02:05:37 PM
Just found it
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170
Section 170
(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of [F4a motor vehicle] does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—
(a) to a constable, or
(b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,
the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.
This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.
(6)To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act
Section 170 (1) (a) relates to injury caused and production of insurance. It is not required for damage nly
So please continue to fight your corner :azn:
It's not about fighting my corner...it's about quoting trusted information and experience...so get down from your high horse before you get altitude sickness...the quote you put up in my opinion refers to the time of the incident....everyone on here and every other human being on Gods Earth would expect that two parties colliding irrespective of injury would swap details.
So in essence I still disagree with you...if that gets me a flogging on here then so be it.
You really are one smug individual (That's me being kind)
Quote from: Alzo on April 28, 2016, 04:56:33 PM
So in essence I still disagree with you...if that gets me a flogging on here then so be it.
You really are one smug individual (That's me being kind)
I am arrogant? :rolleyes: That is rich coming from you who. And I really am biting my lip at what I want to say :lipsrsealed:
You are clearly an expert on the subject, so lets just agree to disagree and from now on ignore one another.
Well, that escalated quickly, as they say...
:cussing:
As I say, homeboy's given me his insurance details, so it's all good fo' shizzle.
Didn't even have to send him a photograph of my bruises...
Quote from: tucola on April 28, 2016, 05:19:28 PM
Well, that escalated quickly, as they say...
:cussing:
As I say, homeboy's given me his insurance details, so it's all good fo' shizzle.
Didn't even have to send him a photograph of my bruises...
Sorry about that, it was not my intention to get narky :embarrassed: I am out of here, so subject as far as I am concerned is closed
Quote from: T.C on April 28, 2016, 05:12:29 PM
Quote from: Alzo on April 28, 2016, 04:56:33 PM
So in essence I still disagree with you...if that gets me a flogging on here then so be it.
You really are one smug individual (That's me being kind)
I am arrogant? :rolleyes: That is rich coming from you who. And I really am biting my lip at what I want to say :lipsrsealed:
You are clearly an expert on the subject, so lets just agree to disagree and from now on ignore one another.
I said "smug"..feel free to add arrogance if you wish.
And don't bite your lip...feel free...because there's nothing you could say that would bother me one way or another.
Wind it in please. There's no need to make it personal when everyone is just trying to help a fellow ninja. Play nice.
Alzo - not sure why this thread is getting your goat so much but have to say TC is an expert in these matters and I have no wish to lose his knowledge from these halls or yours for that matter.
TC - I think Tucola was expressing surprise at the insurance still applying on a bike you have sold rather than you.
Both of you - This is the Internet. Things read differently to how they are written and people have different points of view.
Now I have come across as a patronising idiot please can we get back to trying to help a mate who has had some misfortune.
There has already been an example of the sort of thing that makes this place great on this thread with the offer of a loan bike and the Memorial Ride this weekend as a further reminder lets keep that spirit.
Any problems drop me a pm.
I responded to a statement on here in the real belief I was passing on genuine information...based on past experience and the link I put up...so to be rubbished by someone regardless of experience is belittling. I don't do belittling. So if this person belittles me I react. Keep him...ban me. That's the best resolution. Cheers.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/davidwe/flounce_one_9er.jpg)
I bet given the lack of activity on here a flounce was the last thing expected. No one can accuse me of not partaking...now hit those buttons.
Do you not think you're being a bit melodramatic?
Dan will be along shortly to offer a hug. Probably for a bit longer than is completely comfortable.
And if you're really that bothered there is a logout button in the bar near the top of the page. Logging back in is completely voluntary.
Quote from: Alzo on April 29, 2016, 11:14:56 AM
I bet given the lack of activity on here a flounce was the last thing expected. No one can accuse me of not partaking...now hit those buttons.
Nobody is belittling anybody you're choosing to read meaning into it that I doubt is there. If I'm wrong and it is then the 2 of you can duke it out at playtime over PM and not on this thread.
You know your stuff and TC knows his, and I don't really care who is right, but there's no need to bicker about it like kids. If you feel you need some timeout feel free to take it but nobody is going to ban you for having an opinion Alzo. We love you both like red headed stepchildren and don't want either of you to leave.
Quote from: David W on April 29, 2016, 11:18:37 AM
Do you not think you're being a bit melodramatic?
Possibly
Quote from: David W on April 29, 2016, 11:24:18 AM
And if you're really that bothered there is a logout button in the bar near the top of the page. Logging back in is completely voluntary.
I shall utilise that. Thank you...and Goodbye. :icon_salut:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b256/davidwe/oh20the20drama.jpg)
Shit, I feel bad about this now.
:(
Add the psychological trauma of being involved in an internet forum flounce to your personal injury claim....
Like your thinking...