Rear-ended

[Dom1]

Easy tiger, TC knows his accident onions.

Must say I thought you had to give insurance details, if not at the time then at some point.

No idea who my insurer is.

[T.C]

]I only speak from my experience...I was taken off at a Roundabout and the lad refused to give details...the Police visited him later that day and told him he was legally obliged to pass on details..."so keep your rolly eyes I know everything attitude" and accept that I was only trying to pass on my experience to assist...perhaps Scottish law differs...

I rolled eyes because this has been covered many times before.  You made a statement of fact which was/is inaccurate.  And if I did know everything, I would be making a dam sight more money that I do.

You are legally obliged to pass on names and addresses and registration numbers, (which may ne what they are referring to)  but you are not legally required to give insurance details unless there is injury, and even then, if you gave them to a bystander who offered to take them to the Hospital (as an example) and even though you may not know the person, the law will have been complied with.

In the case of injury you are obliged to provide your insurance details to any person with reasonable grounds to so require those details, otherwise the crash must be reported as soon as practicable but in any case within 24 hours.

In the case of damage only crashes, a letter of claim gets sent to the third party who should then pass it onto their insurers.  If they don't then they become personally liable and will end up with a CCJ or worse.

The rules are the same in Scotland

[Alzo]

Taken from Citizens advice law page:


In the case of a damage-only accident, the driver must give insurance details to anyone who may wish to make a claim against them.

In all accidents, drivers should inform their own insurance company.


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/transport/driving-and-parking/driving/traffic-accidents/

[tucola]

my sprint 1050 is currently gathering dust, but mot'd and ready to rock if you need to borrow it for however long..

An extremely generous offer. Thanks dude! I'll see where we get to this week but might well consider taking you up on this - will give you a shout.

In this case, because there is no injury, if you find a solicitor that you can instruct outside of legal expenses appointed to deal with a damage only, please let me know because unless they are financed by the insurers or the value of the claim is under £5,000 you cannot claim legal costs.

That is why I mentioned that I have someone who could assist.

Likewise, the offer was much appreciated.

Given that there's no significant injuries and the case seems pretty clear-cut, my instinct was to avoid going straight to lawyers and incurring those legal costs, and give this guy the chance to sort it sensibly and quickly.

But if that doesn't work out, you'll be the first person I'll call.

[T.C]

Taken from Citizens advice law page:


In the case of a damage-only accident, the driver must give insurance details to anyone who may wish to make a claim against them.

In all accidents, drivers should inform their own insurance company.


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/transport/driving-and-parking/driving/traffic-accidents/

Taken from the very site you posted the link to...

If any personal injury is caused to another person, the driver must also produce a valid insurance certificate if asked to do so by a police officer, injured person, or anyone else directly or indirectly involved in the accident. If the insurance certificate is asked for, but not produced at the time, the accident must be reported to a police station as soon as practicable, or in any case within 24 hours, and the insurance certificate must be taken to a police station within seven days of the accident. However if the driver is asked at the time of the accident to produce insurance details and does so, there is no further obligation to report the accident to the police, as long as they have complied with the duties described above.

They are right in that advice

In respect of this comment

In the case of a damage-only accident, the driver must give insurance details to anyone who may wish to make a claim against them.

They are wrong.  I have actually written to them and advised them.  They have acknowledged me and have apologised for giving inaccurate information.

There has never been a requirement in law to produce insurance documents in damage only crashes, only Injury.

But I am happy to contest your argument if you so wish....

[Gilby104]

Out of interest T.C is the insurance details vs personal details thing a case of semantics? i.e. if someone is required to give their personal details is it not a foregone conclusion that you your insurer will be able to find out if, where and how the vehicle is insured?

[T.C]

Just found it

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/170

Section 170

(5) If, in a case where this section applies by virtue of subsection (1)(a) above, the driver of [F4a motor vehicle] does not at the time of the accident produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act—

(a) to a constable, or

(b) to some person who, having reasonable grounds for so doing, has required him to produce it,

the driver must report the accident and produce such a certificate or other evidence.

This subsection does not apply to the driver of an invalid carriage.

(6)To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance or security, or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act

Section 170 (1) (a) relates to injury caused and production of insurance.  It is not required for damage nly

So please continue to fight your corner 

[tucola]

I just noticed a big fookin' bruise has come up on my leg that I hadn't even noticed bashing in the heat of the moment - this is not a joke - I'm serious!

So I guess this means that the fooker has to give me his insurance details in any event!

[T.C]

Out of interest T.C is the insurance details vs personal details thing a case of semantics? i.e. if someone is required to give their personal details is it not a foregone conclusion that you your insurer will be able to find out if, where and how the vehicle is insured?

Not really semantics.  A company car or hire car could be involved (look at the issues that often arise with the delivery of an NIP), many drivers (myself included) do not carry insurance certificates with them, drivers are not always named on the policy.

So by giving driver and owner details does not always guarantee they are going to produce insurance details, in the same vein there are riders who sell their bikes, new owner does not bother to insure, previous owner does not cancel said policy, new owner has a crash, old owner becomes liable on their policy.

[tucola]

Gilby, problem with relying on my own insurance company to be able to get the other side's insurance details is that my insurance company will only do anything at all if I claim on my own policy, which I'm not sure I want to do at the moment. So until I do something, nothing happens.

But anyway, we're actually getting side-tracked here: - the other guy happily gave me his insurance details by email this morning when I asked him for them, although he has asked me to give him a quote for the damage before we decide whether to get them involved or whether he'd rather deal with the matter direct to avoid having to make a claim on his policy.

I suspect it's going to be the usual situation that he is currently labouring under the misapprehension that it's going to be £40 to a panel beater, and the insurers will end up being involved pretty quick once we see how many expensive bits of plastic are going to need replacing...

[T.C]

I just noticed a big fookin' bruise has come up on my leg that I hadn't even noticed bashing in the heat of the moment - this is not a joke - I'm serious!

So I guess this means that the fooker has to give me his insurance details in any event!

Yes it is classified as an injury, and so insurance details are required to be produced to anyone with reasonable requirements to so require those details.  If the other side does not produce them, then it has to be produced to a Constable as soon as practicable but in any case within 24 hours.

Because you were not injured at the time, then to prove an offence of failing to stop and report for failing to produce their insurance is unlikely to succeed unless of course they failed to provide the other details required.  As far as making a personal injury claim is concerned, at the moment it would fall below the £1,000 threshold of being able to claim back legal costs or get funding under a CFA, but if issues persist for a week of so, then it would put you in reach of a fast rack claim.

[tucola]

in the same vein there are riders who sell their bikes, new owner does not bother to insure, previous owner does not cancel said policy, new owner has a crash, old owner becomes liable on their policy

I've heard this before, and it sounds legally flawed to me.

Andrew Dalton of White Dalton wrote about it in Bike Magazine and I email him to query it, but he never responded.

Sounds like an urban myth...

In fact, haven't we been over this ground on here before?

[tucola]

As far as making a personal injury claim is concerned,

Nah, fook that, I've had worse playing rugby - just want to get this sorted quickly, fairly, without taking the piss or making anyone's premiums go up unnecessarily.

[tucola]

http://www.mcnninjas.com/smf/index.php?topic=1958.msg22160#msg22160

Knew we'd been over the insurance on vehicle sale thing before...

[T.C]

Sounds like an urban myth...

Please yourself.  Makes me wonder why you posted up asking for any advice in the first place?

Clearly you don't need it or want it.