I'm sure we've all see this floating around the 'tinterweb and I know many of my dear FB friends from here have supported the contents, but I'm not so sure I do.

http://dazooracing.wordpress.com/2014/05/20/road-racing-is-dangerous/

For clarity, I support road racing as a spectacle and have enormous admiration for those who compete, and I doubt anyone would disagree with me when I say that improvements in rider safety are largely good, so I'm not calling for these kinds of races to be banned.

I just find it a little unsavory when people suggest that 'so-and-so' died doing what he/she loved doing, they knew the risks etc.

It's worth asking the question: if you told a road racer that he would eventually be killed participating in the sport he loves, would he continue?

In other words, do some people need protecting from themselves?

I can only make my judgement based on very limited (and rather pathetic) personal experience, but when I was racing, accidents happened to other people, even when they happened to me, there was always some freak occurrence to suggest it wouldn't happen again..... regrettably, my natural lack of talent controlling a motorcycle at warp speeds ensured that it did.... frequently.

Point being, if I could go back, knowing what I know now, I'd never throw a leg over a motorcycle in the first place, and my injuries were never life threatening.

I'm not proposing a solution, merely the suggestion that it's not all 'black and white' and to justify a rider's death with a series of blanket clichés is a bit head in the ground.

It maybe useful/complete to post the link to the Belfast Telegraph arcticle that Darren is responding too...

Its all about your perception of risk.  One mans risk is another mans "its just fine dont sweat it". Your assuming they don't understand the risks -- most I do and I've known Simon since his MSS days and alas Mark Buckley too fairly well and they both clearly understood the risks and limitations - probably much better than the uninformed by stander.

Also, more people get killed horse riding or through being stung by bee's than road racing...

Quote from: mc101 on May 21, 2014, 08:50:08 AM
It maybe useful/complete to post the link to the Belfast Telegraph arcticle that Darren is responding too...

I don't think so, as it complicates the point I'm raising.

Do we just ban bikes for all purposes...look at the percentages...of all that raced the NW200 how many died...risk is the key here...without life would be  dull...boredom would claim more lives.

Quote from: Alzo on May 21, 2014, 11:04:22 AM
Do we just ban bikes for all purposes...look at the percentages...of all that raced the NW200 how many died...risk is the key here...without life would be  dull...boredom would claim more lives.

It's a fair comment...... I guess my argument could be turned against me, as a rider if someone came along and told me I'd be killed in an accident, I'd give up..... but that's not going to happen so I'm comfortable taking the risk assuming I'll be fine.

Plus I'd be pissed off if someone came along and stopped me riding on the basis that they're protecting me from myself.

Quote from: mc101 on May 21, 2014, 08:50:08 AM
It maybe useful/complete to post the link to the Belfast Telegraph arcticle that Darren is responding too...

Its all about your perception of risk.  One mans risk is another mans "its just fine dont sweat it". Your assuming they don't understand the risks -- most I do and I've known Simon since his MSS days and alas Mark Buckley too fairly well and they both clearly understood the risks and limitations - probably much better than the uninformed by stander.

Also, more people get killed horse riding or through being stung by bee's than road racing...

+1 on this point about horse riding. It is an incredibly dangerous pastime when they start competing, yet we as parents think nothing of letting our kids do it because they want to (it is mostly adults who get clobbered though as they are doing more risky stuff, but kids do lose their lives.

It'd be more beneficial to make smoking illegal.

Danoir, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it's not black and white!

I can't disagree with the danger of it, road racing is inherently dangerous and I'd be very surprised indeed if it wasn't much much more dangerous than horse riding or most other forms of motorsport if you consider the risk posed when you actually get on the bike.

The thing is, where is the tipping point? You could apply the same 'help them from themselves' argument to all motorbike related activity as well as horses I'm sure.... you could apply it to tree climbing! From my own personal view I'd say that road racing as around about where the tipping point should be? It's hard to think of an organised event that would be more dangerous.

However, I still wouldn't stop it.... I can't really explain why, I like that people can do it should they so wish and I wouldn't want to presume to guess on all racer's approach and what they are willing to risk.

I also think, going off what you said about your racing experience, it's fairly likely that you and all the other young lads 'knew' the risk, you just chose to either priorities it lower or put it out of your mind because you liked what you were doing. I think a lot of the 'I'll be alright' or 'I know what I am doing' rational is likely to be retrofitted justification for something you had already decided to do based on your own basic decision that you 'want' to do it? Probably the same reason I drove and rode like a twat at 16/17/18 (and perhaps longer!)

There isn't a right answer is there?

I've had people at work say to me "But, but, aren't you worried you might have an accident riding a bike, especially on the track?". To which I usually reply "Well yes, of course, it's in the back of mind at times yeah". The response is usually "Then why do it? Surely it's selfish to put yourself at that kind of risk when you have people at home who love you, think how upset they'd be if anything happened".

It's usually at that point I say, "It may be risky, but it's all relative, I may get hit by a bus tomorrow, you just never know". This usually ends with them sighing and shaking their heads.

My view is, humans are drawn to dangerous past times, the thrill, the risk/reward, the excitement. The world would be a boring place if we all took no risks. In my mind if a responsible intelligent adult decides to engage in a risky pastime then who has the right to judge them or stop them? Noone I would argue.

However, some people should realise they are walking a finer line than most and decide when to quit. But, that argument in itself is what breeds the whole "saving him from himself" point of view.

I say, people make choices, they live with the consequences, we cannot see into the future so we must act as we see fit with the information to hand.

Risk got the Human Race to where we are now...the problem now is society now view risk as being too risky...let's wrap everyone up in big cotton wool balls and ban all potential dangerous pursuits...never venture outdoors incase of danger...our legs will fall off due to lack of use...who needs arms...they could potentially pick something dangerous up...so off they go...and now we are nothing more than a blob of neurotic flesh afraid to live.
I'll keep on biking knowing the risks...hope upon hope that I never come to harm or perish...but should it come my way then at least I chose to live a life.

we take risk everyday most of us on purpose and even for fun you don't get anywere in life without taking risks ive had the reaper breathing down my neck more than I care to admit and I regret none of it as that's my life and that's how I intend to live it ,its my choice no one else so if I want to take stupid risks it should be my right to do so    fuck health and safety regulations taking over every part of our lifes give it five years your have to be supervised by law to have a bloody bath!

I think the trouble when it's put as a question, is that there can only be a 'might' in it,
As in if you do road racing you probably will crash at some point and you 'might' die, but that can be said of absolutely anything, did you hear about the lad choked on a peanut? Well that don't stop me munching M&M's,

So bikers as a breed know the ultimate risk, but there are enough 'probably' or maybe's in there to make it an almost no brainer, and let's not forget most of us a 'groomed' into it from a young age, so the progression leads to bigger and faster things but the risk although always there, you & your loved ones get used to it/accept it, to coin the cliche 'to do what we love'

So as it's not black and white I can't agree me old pedigree chum, if it was I'd agree hole heartedly, and never climb a ladder either as they is death traps I tell ya!

Life is for living however you or I wish to do it and one thing is for sure there is an end to it at some stage, now I didnt enjoy the results of my off at Donny last year and looking at the photos Im well aware that it could have had a much worse result. I will not give up riding because of it in spite of some pretty serious objections from loved ones recently, it's already been said about how many ways we could catch the last bus home so I figure stopping road racing or biking is not the route.

We cannot protect others from life and we do not have the right to decide what risks people can take.

me and the other half are both bikers and were having a baby in November and we are fully intending in buying baby a bike the moment he can walk that don't make me or her irresponsible on bad parents we just don't believe everything should be covered in bubble wrap

We all need saving from ourselves. Im sure some on here drink, smoke, take drugs, eat fatty food, take part in dangerous sports etc etc and i reckon most dont really want to die doing any of the above

When i get on a bike i dont really think that im going to die. I, like most, just get on with it. Saying "so and so died doing what they loved" is possibly just a method of coping?

I dont want to die doing stuff i like......riding a bike, drinking beer, eating fried chicken........but if i had to.....id make sure i was flat out, drinking beer through my eyeballs and polishing off a KFC family bucket. So in that respect.......id die doing something i loved

Id be interested in views from non bikers on this! Very good topic Lord D