Bikes N Booze...safer than bikes and speed ?

[ash]

Just had an interesting discusion with someone I went to the local bike meeting with. In my misspent youf I mixed and saw mixed...and then saw the consequences of mixing 2 wheels, alcohol and other illegal herbs (big offs where it was obvious that judgment was lacking), so I'm now a few decades down the road, and fairly anti alcohol and motorbikes.
He is a bit of a plodder on the bike, and after a pint of real ale became even more of a plodder.
He berrated me for winding it on in a couple of (empty) B road stretches on theway back and asserted that doing this was illegal, whilst putting alchohol in ones system is legal so the lesser of the 2 evils.

What is your POV on this ?

[Carbon_ZX6R]

don't speed and don't have fun as im sure both of these are possibly illegal? 


go on ash go pull a massive wheelie

[tucola]

He is right that breaking the speed limit is illegal whereas riding after a pint of real ale is unlikely to be.

He is wise to make a conscious effort to ride more carefully having had a drink.

[Tiiimmmaaayyyy]

I've both sped and ridden after a pint. I may have even sped after a drink.

[Carbon_ZX6R]

I've both sped and ridden after a pint. I may have even sped after a drink.

[ash]

He is right that breaking the speed limit is illegal whereas riding after a pint of real ale is unlikely to be.

He is wise to make a conscious effort to ride more carefully having had a drink.

As I see it though, the inclusion of alcohol increases risk over the entire ride, and not where someone choses to wind it on a bit. Appreciate the law is the law, but other countries would class 1 pint in your system as too dangerous to drive or ride safely.

[Carbon_ZX6R]

He is right that breaking the speed limit is illegal whereas riding after a pint of real ale is unlikely to be.

He is wise to make a conscious effort to ride more carefully having had a drink.

As I see it though, the inclusion of alcohol increases risk over the entire ride, and not where someone choses to wind it on a bit. Appreciate the law is the law, but other countries would class 1 pint in your system as too dangerous to drive or ride safely.

in quite a few its illegal, by comparison we have a fairly lax drink drive law

[ash]

I guess a question to ask would be....how many people would go do a track day session after a pint ?

[Carbon_ZX6R]

I guess a question to ask would be....how many people would go do a track day session after a pint ?

we talking directly after the pint or some hours later?

[Gilby104]

Just had an interesting discusion with someone I went to the local bike meeting with. In my misspent youf I mixed and saw mixed...and then saw the consequences of mixing 2 wheels, alcohol and other illegal herbs (big offs where it was obvious that judgment was lacking), so I'm now a few decades down the road, and fairly anti alcohol and motorbikes.
He is a bit of a plodder on the bike, and after a pint of real ale became even more of a plodder.
He berrated me for winding it on in a couple of (empty) B road stretches on theway back and asserted that doing this was illegal, whilst putting alchohol in ones system is legal so the lesser of the 2 evils.

What is your POV on this ?

Surely both are somewhat reckless insofar as you're unnecessarily increasing your chances of being in danger - you shouldn't be doing either as upstanding members of society. The reason both are arguably justifiable is you're calculating the risk with both acting accordingly.

If you're had a beer and you plod home, all legal, all careful then you've minimized your risk given the circumstances. If you're chosen your place to speed and based your judgement on experience then you're minimized your risk given the circumstances.

If something happened, I am sure both speed and alcohol if found to be contributory would land you in hot water. My guess is that 'illegal' speed would get you in more bother than 'legal' alcohol.   

Morally neither is worse than the other in my view given how you've described it.

Generally, I'd be more inclined to encourage people not to drink because of the likelihood that it'll make them misbehave and / or misjudge how much they are misbehaving by. For me, that's probably true.   

[Gilby104]

I guess a question to ask would be....how many people would go do a track day session after a pint ?

Very different question in my view. How many people would seek to test the limit of their bike and ability on the roads and claim it was safe?

[Tiiimmmaaayyyy]

I guess a question to ask would be....how many people would go do a track day session after a pint ?

It would be an unfair question too as the two types of riding and risks are very different.

[tucola]

I guess a question to ask would be....how many people would go do a track day session after a pint ?

That would indeed be a question to ask. But I'm not sure it sheds any light on whether the drink drive limit on the road should be reduced to zero, or that bikers would be wise to treat it effectively as being zero.

I think I'd probably be better around track after a pint, to be honest.

Major problem with alcohol is that it dulls your reactions.

Riding on track shouldn't be about reactions, unless some other dickhead does something stupid forcing you take avoiding action or crash.

Racing's a different matter, but people aren't supposed to be racing on track days.

[ash]

Just had an interesting discusion with someone I went to the local bike meeting with. In my misspent youf I mixed and saw mixed...and then saw the consequences of mixing 2 wheels, alcohol and other illegal herbs (big offs where it was obvious that judgment was lacking), so I'm now a few decades down the road, and fairly anti alcohol and motorbikes.
He is a bit of a plodder on the bike, and after a pint of real ale became even more of a plodder.
He berrated me for winding it on in a couple of (empty) B road stretches on theway back and asserted that doing this was illegal, whilst putting alchohol in ones system is legal so the lesser of the 2 evils.

What is your POV on this ?

Surely both are somewhat reckless insofar as you're unnecessarily increasing your chances of being in danger - you shouldn't be doing either as upstanding members of society. The reason both are arguably justifiable is you're calculating the risk with both acting accordingly.

If you're had a beer and you plod home, all legal, all careful then you've minimized your risk given the circumstances. If you're chosen your place to speed and based your judgement on experience then you're minimized your risk given the circumstances.

If something happened, I am sure both speed and alcohol if found to be contributory would land you in hot water. My guess is that 'illegal' speed would get you in more bother than 'legal' alcohol.   

Morally neither is worse than the other in my view given how you've described it.

Generally, I'd be more inclined to encourage people not to drink because of the likelihood that it'll make them misbehave and / or misjudge how much they are misbehaving by. For me, that's probably true.   

It isn't the misbehaving which I see alcohol causing an issue because you don't need to be under the influence to go and break the posted limits, and likewise, you may (like he slowed down a bit because you feel less in control after a drink). What I do see an issue with in relation to alcohol (and this is irrespective of the laws of this land governing them) is that alcohol or drugs impairs a drivers (or riders) ability to make a judgment on their acquired experience - travel at a speed which you can stop within the distance to be safe. Someone with impaired judgment may not slow sufficiently for the side road, blind bend, blind summit where they would never put themselves in that position when sober.

[Gilby104]

Just had an interesting discusion with someone I went to the local bike meeting with. In my misspent youf I mixed and saw mixed...and then saw the consequences of mixing 2 wheels, alcohol and other illegal herbs (big offs where it was obvious that judgment was lacking), so I'm now a few decades down the road, and fairly anti alcohol and motorbikes.
He is a bit of a plodder on the bike, and after a pint of real ale became even more of a plodder.
He berrated me for winding it on in a couple of (empty) B road stretches on theway back and asserted that doing this was illegal, whilst putting alchohol in ones system is legal so the lesser of the 2 evils.

What is your POV on this ?

Surely both are somewhat reckless insofar as you're unnecessarily increasing your chances of being in danger - you shouldn't be doing either as upstanding members of society. The reason both are arguably justifiable is you're calculating the risk with both acting accordingly.

If you're had a beer and you plod home, all legal, all careful then you've minimized your risk given the circumstances. If you're chosen your place to speed and based your judgement on experience then you're minimized your risk given the circumstances.

If something happened, I am sure both speed and alcohol if found to be contributory would land you in hot water. My guess is that 'illegal' speed would get you in more bother than 'legal' alcohol.   

Morally neither is worse than the other in my view given how you've described it.

Generally, I'd be more inclined to encourage people not to drink because of the likelihood that it'll make them misbehave and / or misjudge how much they are misbehaving by. For me, that's probably true.   

It isn't the misbehaving which I see alcohol causing an issue because you don't need to be under the influence to go and break the posted limits, and likewise, you may (like he slowed down a bit because you feel less in control after a drink). What I do see an issue with in relation to alcohol (and this is irrespective of the laws of this land governing them) is that alcohol or drugs impairs a drivers (or riders) ability to make a judgment on their acquired experience - travel at a speed which you can stop within the distance to be safe. Someone with impaired judgment may not slow sufficiently for the side road, blind bend, blind summit where they would never put themselves in that position when sober.

I think you're right regarding the judgement element if you're suggesting, for example, will the guy after a pint think 'open gate, likely tractor' etc

However, in my view you're I don't think you;re giving all factors the proper weight in suggesting a pint is worse than speeding.

You've got two elements here. The first is your judgement to avoid being in an emergency situation and the second is your ability to deal with and get yourself out of an emergency.

I'd agree that the pint is going to make you less likely to spot and factor in an emergency situation. However, no matter how good you are, upping your speed will give you less attention and time to focus on those hazards and they will be coming at you faster. Maybe you'll have thought about the hazards (or have more capacity to do so) but there is much less you can do about avoiding them at a higher speed.

Secondly, with regard to actually getting yourself out of danger that is all about having the time to react. I'd argue that speed combined with the lack of time to react and there being less you can do with the situation in front of you is probably worse than having more time to deal with it but a slower brain. For example, as a general rule I'd wager I'd be able to deal much more efficiently and meaningfully with an emergency situation after a pint but 10mph under the speed limit than you would 10mph over but sober. 

I'm basing this on the case above and someone who knows the effect of drink and has adjusted his riding accordingly.