Petition to allow Police to chase helmetless bike thieves.

[Alzo]

I meant if they die during the course of their endeavour I wouldn't shed a tear. Instead of having a go on my thoughts and opinions why not she'd light on how you think it could/should be dealt with.
How would you react to finding someone in the act of stealing your paj...? A hug and a thank you?

[David W]

No, I'd be pissed off and would quite like them to be dealt with in court.  Call me an old traditionalist but I'm quite supportive of the rule of law and principles like proportionate responses rather than lynch mobs.
If a teenager is riding a bike without a helmet, back off and follow at a safe distance.  If it gets lairy, just let them go and catch them another day.  The risk to everyone in the vicinity is simply not worth the risk over something as trivial as someone's 'paj'.

[Alzo]

The Courts aren't dealing with them though.
And my Trivial PAJ cost me £12k...I worked like a Galley Slave to earn the money...if it gets stolen I get way less than I paid and a claim against my record which effects my renewal for my bike...car...and works van.
If caught they will go to court and get a small fine and told not to do it again.
Stronger Courts are the answer...letting them get away is not.

[Alzo]

Just to be hypothetical...if I was allowed a gun...obviously my identity kept secret...and I was allowed to shoot a few of these fuckers...it would make others think twice if they would suffer the same fate...do you see where I'm coming from.
Great idea or what.

[Maddog]

The thieves doing most of the taking are not young and stupid...they are stealing to order...I honestly don't see them dying as a bad thing....one less scumbag is a plus in my book...but I also don't want to see a good Cops career ended due to the actions of these vermin.
I personally would do serious harm if I caught someone trying to take my "It's just property"...I guess I would just have to accept the consequences.

The steal to order types don't tear off without a crash helmet.  Neither do the muggers.  Its more often than not going to be young kids on field/dirtbikes.  Quite probably the bike was stolen from somebody, somewhere along the line but like I said stealing a motorbike shouldn't carry a death penalty.

You are bang on. The steal to order types tend to throw the bike in an MPV or van. The muggers ride out on the peds with lids on, do the crimes, then when police get behind them, they remove the lids.

[Maddog]

No, I'd be pissed off and would quite like them to be dealt with in court.  Call me an old traditionalist but I'm quite supportive of the rule of law and principles like proportionate responses rather than lynch mobs.
If a teenager is riding a bike without a helmet, back off and follow at a safe distance.  If it gets lairy, just let them go and catch them another day.  The risk to everyone in the vicinity is simply not worth the risk over something as trivial as someone's 'paj'.

To be dealt with in court, they need to be caught. How do you catch them and bring them to justice?
When you say 'if it gets lairy' i presume you mean the ped riding?

[tucola]

I think the point is that a pursuit has to be proportionate.

If the pursuit becomes dangerous, how important is it to apprehend the criminal?

It's not worth having a Blues Brothers style chase, smashing up the whole town, destroying hundreds of cars, putting lives at risk, to catch someone who stole a Snickers from the newsagent.

If it's Raoul Moat, we know he's off his nut, armed, already killed someone, shot a police-officer, then it's worth a more dangerous pursuit to apprehend him in the wider public interest.

So the issue for me isn't helmet or no helmet. It's that hot pursuits are dangerous and you don't do it unless it's justified. Helmet doesn't do you much good if you go into a wall at 90mph.

But deliberately removing the helmet in order to stop the pursuit?

I don't like that.

What next, putting a gun to your own head and walking slowly away from the arresting officer saying "if you try to nick me, I'm blowing my own brains out"?

[David W]

Just to be hypothetical...if I was allowed a gun...obviously my identity kept secret...and I was allowed to shoot a few of these fuckers...it would make others think twice if they would suffer the same fate...do you see where I'm coming from.
Great idea or what.

So what happens if it turns out they are a bit harder than you while you're trying to dish out your frontier justice?  I'm fairly sure a couple of hoolies are going to be more than a match for a middle-aged bloke getting all testosteroned up.  Will you just accept that as an important lesson in life or will you expect them to be given an extra punishment?

[Alzo]

Just to be hypothetical...if I was allowed a gun...obviously my identity kept secret...and I was allowed to shoot a few of these fuckers...it would make others think twice if they would suffer the same fate...do you see where I'm coming from.
Great idea or what.

So what happens if it turns out they are a bit harder than you while you're trying to dish out your frontier justice?  I'm fairly sure a couple of hoolies are going to be more than a match for a middle-aged bloke getting all testosteroned up.  Will you just accept that as an important lesson in life or will you expect them to be given an extra punishment?

I would be in disguise with appropriate armour on...and my identity would be kept top secret...and I fully intend to kill them before they got a chance to mash my perfectly preserved middle aged body.
But if I did die in my pursuit to rid society of these scum I would hope a capable replacement be found immediately and a plaque with my face on it be erected on a prominent building within my City of birth.

[Lord Danoir the first]

I would be in disguise ...and my identity would be kept top secret...

But if I did die in my pursuit to rid society of these scum I would hope a capable replacement be found immediately and a plaque with my face on it be erected on a prominent building within my City of birth.

[Alzo]

Works for me. 

[David W]

No, I'd be pissed off and would quite like them to be dealt with in court.  Call me an old traditionalist but I'm quite supportive of the rule of law and principles like proportionate responses rather than lynch mobs.
If a teenager is riding a bike without a helmet, back off and follow at a safe distance.  If it gets lairy, just let them go and catch them another day.  The risk to everyone in the vicinity is simply not worth the risk over something as trivial as someone's 'paj'.

To be dealt with in court, they need to be caught. How do you catch them and bring them to justice?
When you say 'if it gets lairy' i presume you mean the ped riding?

You don't need to catch somebody actually committing the offence to prosecute them.
I've no idea what the statistics are but I doubt many convictions for any sort of crime are because the Police chased and caught somebody.
And I just don't think anybody deserves to die (perpetrator, police or innocent bystander) for something as trivial as stealing something.

[Manic636]

Whilst I fully support that we have a system of Laws and Rules to abide by it has become more and more clear that they punishment system does neither give a truly proportionate response nor act as a deterrent for anyone other than those that are predisposed to being law abiding citizens in the first place ergo the system is broken..

With regards the chasing of the thieving scum who nick bikes whether helmetless or otherwise unless there is danger to innocent bystanders then my feeling is that the chase is on.. I contribute to society through taxes in all their forms and as part of that I am assured that the Police will be there to protect me and my property or bring those that cause injury to me or my property are brought to answer for their crime and if they suffer injury in the process then I'm not likely to shed many tears.. May sound harsh but that's my view and I'm entitled to it .. (may be influenced by being the victim of robbery in the past and why I should ultimately pay to be a victim I haven't got a clue)

[T.C]

With regards the chasing of the thieving scum who nick bikes whether helmetless or otherwise unless there is danger to innocent bystanders then my feeling is that the chase is on..

Try explaining that to the copper involved in the pursuit when it all goes wrong, I have been there done that.

I have been involved in enough chases where it gets to the point where you think "Oh F@ck" because you know sooner or later your luck will run out no matter how much care you take.

I was involved in one particular pursuit where I was on the bike going after a car that contained someone who had just commited an armed robbery and had (which we did not know at the time) 2 loaded sawn off shotguns on board and a hand gun.

Bandit vehicle negotiated a left hand bend and hit a stationary HGV broken down on the blind side.  Roof of the bandit vehicle came straight off along with the drivers head.  To this day I remember seeing the head fly past me with a strange look on the face (and I do not say that as a joke or pun) and my first thought was "Thank christ it disn't hit me".

Turned out, said headless crook had stolen about £20,000 at a Post Office a short while earlier.  On that basis ny initial reaction was "Well that is one more scumbag off the street and it will save the taxpayer a few bob"

But then the paperwork started along with the investigation and the inquest.  That was more stressfull than seeing the scrote snuff it which did not bother me in the slightest.  My view was he had 2 options, stop and take the consequences or continue and accept the consequences.

I was lucky, no one other than the scumbag was killed or injured but it is afterwards you start to think "What If?"

I have been involved in others where the end result was not as catastrophic except one, but the principle remains the same.

It is easy for members of the public saying that everyone should be chased regardless of the consequences, I am sure you would not be saying or thinking that if you had first habd experience, all most people see is the glamour and the excitement of the chase thanks to the non reality TV programmes.

[tucola]

something as trivial as stealing something

It's not trivial.

The right to peaceful enjoyment of ones possessions is, like, Article 1 of the European Convention on Human Rights.

People shouldn't take other people's shit.

Part of the deal by which we moved away from a Wild West "trespassers will be shot" mentality, more like they still have in the US, is that the police are there to act, proportionately, on our behalf.

Otherwise I stand by what I said up-thread.