Domestic fire sprinkler system help

Tuck · December 08, 2013, 11:44:12 AM

Anybody got any experience of these?

My property renovation is a 3 story building with open staircases. Building control are insisting that I fit a sprinkler system to the top two floors. Frustrating as the house never had one before. The rear of the house will have a 12ft wide balcony/deck running its entire width on the middle floor making it easy to escape the top floor. The front door is also on the middle floor having an outside staircase up from ground level so again another means of escape. Was tempted to appeal given that there is a means of escape both sides of the house but my architect seems to think it would be a wasted effort.

Was hoping to work with my plumber and DIY it a bit but would still need to have it signed off by someone suitably qualified. The Plumber is understandably worried that he will either deluge my new house or should it not be adequate feel bad should there be any issue.

I can't seen to find anyone local to take it on, only big national companies who look like they will charge a fortune for what is a simple job given that there are not many components involved. Currently the ceilings, floors and stud walls etc are all open and that there should be no need for stored water tanks, pumps etc as I have fitted a new 32mm water main and think the pressure will be adequate.

Looks like building control are starting to push for this more on new builds and refurbs so maybe a good venture for anyone looking for a new business idea. Anyways if any of you lot can offer me any advice, tips or happen to have a contact in the Spalding area who can get on it a bit sharpish please let me know.

Jimhas7 · December 08, 2013, 12:34:18 PM

Can't help on the domestic front but Have a look round this site you might find the info and help you need:

http://www.bafsa.org.uk/sprinkler-information/domestic-residential-sprinklers.php

http://www.bafsa.org.uk/sprinkler-information/third-party-certification.php

Dom1 · December 08, 2013, 02:31:52 PM

Again not much help here but on a recent scheme we had these proposed.

http://www.plumis.co.uk/automist.html

In the end we separated the stairs as much as possible and had a type L1 fire alarm system. Maybe that would be an option.

Tuck · December 08, 2013, 02:58:47 PM

Cheers folks,

I had a look at the Plumis system, really like the idea of misting rather than deluge. I think it has its own pump too so would work on lower supply pressure and water volume. They have an agent in Peterborough who we use at work so I've sent an inquiry, its at least worth having a quote but im half expecting a daft price and long lead time.

My problem is finding an installer who is local and available at short notice. The house is currently at the best possible stage to fit it right now but I want to crack on with remaining stud walls, floors and ceilings in the next few weeks. Never know I may be plesantly suprised

Ideally we would like small and local, qualified to design a system, leave the bits with us and let our plumber install it then just come back and commission/certificate it. Money is getting tight and this could be another big hitter which was not in the budget and could hold other work up! I tend to shy away from the companies with shiny websites and suited salesmen that give you a feeling that they once sold double glazing and conservatories for 4 times their worth. As these systems are being spec'd more and I think have become compulsary in Wales I expected a few one man band plumbers to do the regs course and dramatically undercut the big players. The domestic system components are cheap, its just having the certs to do it and its not all that specialist for any plumber to learn and add to their portfolio.

We had already been through the bafsa website and picked out some good info. Was hoping that my plumber would be happy to work with me using that information. He is just worried that we may spec something wrong and/or not be able to find someone to sign it off for us so has asked me to dig around for some advice.

Lord Danoir the first · December 08, 2013, 08:32:50 PM

Assuming you can't enclose the stair, could you not have an escape from the middle balcony, or widen the balcony to 5m. You could argue that escape to a distance of 5m is possible although BC may counter that the structure needs fire rated.

Re: the sprinkler system. You're right, there are very few registered local installers, but it needs fitting by one unfortunately. Can't imagine asking a plumber to fit it and get it certified elsewhere will work.

I'll gladly look at your plans and see if you have another option.

Tuck · December 09, 2013, 01:56:32 PM

Cheers for your input Dan, appreciate and value your opinion. We really can't enclose the staircases but I really don't see why we cannot have an escape from the middle balcony. We are planning to go 12ft wide which is on the passed/approved plans but do have the space to go bigger if it would make a difference, not sure if we would need to go through planning again to go bigger though. We have made a number of changes to the approved layout which they have been ok with but Its a bit different to change external dimensions. Might be worth a mention to LABC to see if that would be a work around acceptable to them as we have not actually started the deck yet, only fitted the steels it mounts to on the rear of the house.

One of my builders has mentioned that he has a local contact who prices sensibly for sprinklers systems so I'm pinning my hopes on him coming through sometime this week. If the system can be done for sensible money we will just go with that. If I draw a blank I will have to send you the drawings for a nosey on the off chance that you see something my architect has not.

Lord Danoir the first · December 09, 2013, 02:16:34 PM

Sounds like you're going through all the options available to you. I'm sure your architect has things covered.

It may be worth putting an exit strategy together if you decide to discuss options with LABC. Remember, the approved documents are guidance and there may well be other options available to you. Remember, it's all about getting occupants out of the building safely in the event of an emergency.

Good luck however it turns out.

Gilby104 · December 09, 2013, 02:49:16 PM

Worth going back and asking the question of planning if an additional 1m on the balcony would do the trick. On your decision notice if the approved plan numbers can be found in a condition then you might be able to agree with the planners that you can alter the balcony by what is called a 'material minor amendment' application where the planners consider a minor change in isolation rather than revisiting the application as a whole.

Lord Danoir the first · December 09, 2013, 02:55:47 PM

Quote from: Gilby104 on December 09, 2013, 02:49:16 PM
you might be able to agree with the planners that you can alter the balcony by what is called a 'material minor amendment' application where the planners consider a minor change in isolation rather than revisiting the application as a whole.

I'd be grateful if you'd resign from your current post and go and work for one of the authorities I work with regularly...... thanks in advance.

Gilby104 · December 10, 2013, 05:28:12 PM

Quote from: Lord Danoir the first on December 09, 2013, 02:55:47 PM
Quote from: Gilby104 on December 09, 2013, 02:49:16 PM
you might be able to agree with the planners that you can alter the balcony by what is called a 'material minor amendment' application where the planners consider a minor change in isolation rather than revisiting the application as a whole.

I'd be grateful if you'd resign from your current post and go and work for one of the authorities I work with regularly...... thanks in advance.

Oh Tuck..... whatever you do, don't get an architect to ring on your behalf.... planners fob those beardy weirdies off just for shits n giggles!

Lord Danoir the first · December 10, 2013, 06:42:18 PM

HAHA!!!!! Very near the mark but only half true

Planners do indeed fob architects off........ You see it's easier for a planner to tell a client a load of nonsense than someone who knows their job better than they do...... ;-)

Gilby104 · December 10, 2013, 07:23:41 PM

Quote from: Lord Danoir the first on December 10, 2013, 06:42:18 PM
HAHA!!!!! Very near the mark but only half true

Planners do indeed fob architects off........ You see it's easier for a planner to tell a client a load of nonsense than someone who knows their job better than they do...... ;-)

It's massively frustrating Danoir, and there is no consistency. I've got planners that I insist only I talk to and then I've got planners that I insist that the architect remains as the agent. My only sanity saver is that negotiating with planners (and it's difficulties) is my job.... for you it's a process that stands in the way of you doing yours. I understand your pain!

Tuck · January 11, 2014, 04:58:39 PM

Well in the end I found a fairly local plumber who is certified to do these systems. He had a large local council job and was asked if he could do this kind of work so took the course.

He's quoted me two options, basic just to meet regs and protect escape routes at around £1800 and about £2500 for something with quite a few more areas covered. Just waiting for LABC to say they are happy with specs ive forwarded them and that bit should be sorted now. Thanks to everyone who helped.